[BETA] Gebirsjager G43 Scoped Rifles Capped at 1 Upgrade

[MenciusMoldbug]

I'm wondering why the G43 scoped rifles for gebirsjagers are capped at 1? I thought it would be 2 like the FG42's for Falls because otherwise their main armanenent is elite_kar98k rifles which by themselves aren't enough to justify their reinforce cost (maybe you can use em to just panzerfaust stuff but that's not their intended role). I would rather just keep building assault grenadiers because their weapon upgrades are more plentiful than gebirs in this case.

So I suggest we increase the scoped G43 upgrade cap to 2 instead of 1. To give them more utility as a long range anti-infantry unit.

[Walderschmidt]

Agree.

Wald

[MarKr]

I would rather just keep building assault grenadiers because their weapon upgrades are more plentiful than gebirs in this case.

On the other hand the Assault Grenadiers don't benefit from the doctrinal unlocks so they don't get defensive bonuses in green and yellow cover, don't start with Vet1 and don't get 25% damage reduction.
One scoped G43 is almost as good as 2 non-scoped G43s. The squad leader has one scoped G43 from the start and you can get 2 more + an LMG so a Gebirgs squad with upgrades is in firepower similar as if an Assault Grenadier squad had roughly 5 non-scoped G43s and LMG, but Gebirgs still have those 2 Kar98s and on top of that are a lot more resistant to damage. They already are a lot better at long-range combat than the Assault Grens.

[MenciusMoldbug]

Afaik, the LMG34 comes with the combat equipment CP unlock in the tree. So a fully upgraded/buffed Gebirsjagers is actually quite a lot of CP investment to put into the game when a Fallshrimjager squad is already good enough with their FG42s.

Gebirsjagers are going to shine in the very, very late game. Otherwise, assault grenadiers can fill their niche much better early on and at no CP cost; so you don't have to delay other vital important unlocks like maybe getting butterfly bombs, 88s, or panthers. That's why I wanted double scoped g43 unlocks for them.

There's also the possibility of putting the second G43 scoped unlock behind the combat equipment unlock like the LMG34 has it, so it's a late game upgrade and not an early game one. It could also be a choice upgrade whether you want to decide to get 4 scoped G43's or an LMG34 with 2 Scoped G43's instead.

[CGarr]

I'd support a second scoped g43 upgrade if it was a choice between that or mg42, but 5 scoped and an mg42 might be kinda ridiculous. @mencius, i get what you mean when you say ass grens fill the gebirg niche in terms of anti-infantry, but they dont have the same AT options. gebirgs feel a lot more hardy since theyre tougher and can scare away vehicles more easily.

[Warhawks97]

I wouldnt overdo it.

G43´s are extremely deadly with high rof, big magazins, fastest reload of all rifles, highest average damage and the scoped version being as accurate as elite bolt rifles.

The old gebis were insane at any stage of the game and could basically not die to enemie infantry except snipers. They might become effective a bit later but are also cheaper. Luftwaffe inf is cheap and late game still rambo.

I would leave it as it is. I would say that this doc doesnt need Assault grenadiers to be honest. So i would rather take them away. They could serve a much better duty in the TH doc but well, thats for another topic.

But from my point of view i have no clue why this doc even needs heavy assault grens. Just as AB doesnt need normal Rangers.


So leave it as it is. Luftwaffe is already kicking buts. There should at least be a chance to fight gebis with normal infantry and not making any infantry obsolete.


And, i forgot to mention that in the long run they do have support from a special commando squad.
So yeah, even if they dont rape anything right when they spawn, if the game just lasts a bit, they will be extremely strong already with all their buffs, abilties and support stuff. Adding even more scoped G43´s would yet again be an overkill.

[Mantis]

Luft is more about Fallschs now. Gebirgs are more support unit now, they are not para unit. I play gebirgs little in lategame, sometime. Fallschs are key inf for luft. I understand Menicious, but gebirgs are strong and with bonuses are ok.