[BETA] PE registered arty

[Krieger Blitzer]

SO, what's the purpose of this ability at all??
it's nothing but a remnant of extremely old Bk Mod versions.. i even sometimes accidentally clicked it over my own units in base.

it should be removed from base buildings.. maybe add it as off-map arty for TH doc or so.

[Walderschmidt]

Off map arty would be nice since PE has barely any.

Wald

[kwok]

if i recall... it's a vcoh ability meant for points being captured or bunkers in danger? since then it was put on to other units/buildings and then no one ever brought it up.

like you said it's really old so i dont see any notes about it.

[CGarr]

I hate this ability tbh, I click it on accident pretty often since my mouse likes to jump randomly and its a pretty expensive thing to misclick since it's instant and 150 muni. If someone is in your base already with anything that'd warrant this level of firepower, you're probably screwed anyways.

@Wald, the new doc has 2 different offmaps available with the command tank arty and the 20mm puma mortar bombardment call-in, idk if you've tried those but they're pretty good (although the former could be cheaper, I think its like 150 muni and I think the US version might be cheaper for the same strike). SE doc doesn't really need it since they have assloads of on map options and luft has the dive-bomb, but I see what you mean.

[Sepp(esky)]

It's actually not bad to have imho....especially around fhqs or emplacements that have been overrun.

I think for 150muni it should probably be a little more effective, iirc it's pretty much the same as the German lieutenant mortar off map barrage. It's just mortars, first a few, then a lot, If someone isnt paying attention it can deal a serious blow to infantry...

However the radius of it is pretty small, and it is pretty costly for most docs where muni is at a premium already.

[CGarr]

It's actually not bad to have imho....especially around fhqs or emplacements that have been overrun.

I think for 150muni it should probably be a little more effective, iirc it's pretty much the same as the German lieutenant mortar off map barrage. It's just mortars, first a few, then a lot, If someone isnt paying attention it can deal a serious blow to infantry...

However the radius of it is pretty small, and it is pretty costly for most docs where muni is at a premium already.

I think anything bigger would damage the building, which is why its so weak. I could see it being useful on emplacements, was mainly talking about how useless it is on base buildings. It could definitely be cheaper though.

[Sepp(esky)]

I think the minimum radius pushed out slightly farther from the friendly building and the rounds a little more scattered out with a cost decrease could actually make this even worthy of thinking about on some rare occasions...

It would be kinda hilarious as if it were actual artillery doing the same thing..killing everything friendly, enemy, careless vehicles, and the building it was registered to. ..history is rife with people calling artillery on their own position as a final F-U to being overrun and killed. Not suggesting that, but it would be more interesting if the ability cost was closer in par to it's effectiveness...

[CGarr]

I think the minimum radius pushed out slightly farther from the friendly building and the rounds a little more scattered out with a cost decrease could actually make this even worthy of thinking about on some rare occasions...

It would be kinda hilarious as if it were actual artillery doing the same thing..killing everything friendly, enemy, careless vehicles, and the building it was registered to. ..history is rife with people calling artillery on their own position as a final F-U to being overrun and killed. Not suggesting that, but it would be more interesting if the ability cost was closer in par to it's effectiveness...

Agreed, I personally don't really have a strong opinion on the matter other than that it shouldn't be available on base buildings since it's pointless on those buildings.

[Sepp(esky)]

I think the minimum radius pushed out slightly farther from the friendly building and the rounds a little more scattered out with a cost decrease could actually make this even worthy of thinking about on some rare occasions...

It would be kinda hilarious as if it were actual artillery doing the same thing..killing everything friendly, enemy, careless vehicles, and the building it was registered to. ..history is rife with people calling artillery on their own position as a final F-U to being overrun and killed. Not suggesting that, but it would be more interesting if the ability cost was closer in par to it's effectiveness...

Agreed, I personally don't really have a strong opinion on the matter other than that it shouldn't be available on base buildings since it's pointless on those buildings.

Yea, except when airborne players think they discovered a cool strat on so many maps where you can land next to a base hedgerow, grenade the flak, capture it and start throwing satchels...

I dont think ive ever seen registered arty being used to stop this, precisely because it costs a lot. If it perhaps scattered more or targeted the unit kinda like pe se sector arty does, then it would be more useful...or just cheaper...cheaper is always useful lol

[Krieger Blitzer]

This ability could become an off-map that only works vs emplacements.

[CGarr]

This ability could become an off-map that only works vs emplacements.

Firing on your own emplacements, sure, I don't mind it being available for any doctrine in the game. As an off-map bombardment option for killing enemy emplacements, PE already has that with the PS doc command tank arty. PE doesn't need this as an additional off-map call-in alongside their current arsenal.

[Sepp(esky)]

This ability could become an off-map that only works vs emplacements.

Firing on your own emplacements, sure, I don't mind it being available for any doctrine in the game. As an off-map bombardment option for killing enemy emplacements, PE already has that with the PS doc command tank arty. PE doesn't need this as an additional off-map call-in alongside their current arsenal.

All that did was give PS doc the same ability us tank commanders have had forever, on top of the ever present calliope...something that was incredibly lacking for TH doc.

I agree it shouldnt really be an offmap targeted thing, thats the whole point of some officers, unless we just gave the ability to the SS hauptsturmführer to match what other factions already have...

[CGarr]

All that did was give PS doc the same ability us tank commanders have had forever, on top of the ever present calliope...something that was incredibly lacking for TH doc.

I agree it shouldnt really be an offmap targeted thing, thats the whole point of some officers, unless we just gave the ability to the SS hauptsturmführer to match what other factions already have...

You're joking right? TH doesn't have something similar to the calliope, a tank with a working (ableit ineffective) turret and the ability to just shit on every unit in a given area via massive indirect-fire volleys? Did the rocket hotchkiss just stop existing?

Not sure what you mean by the second part.

[Sepp(esky)]

All that did was give PS doc the same ability us tank commanders have had forever, on top of the ever present calliope...something that was incredibly lacking for TH doc.

I agree it shouldnt really be an offmap targeted thing, thats the whole point of some officers, unless we just gave the ability to the SS hauptsturmführer to match what other factions already have...

You're joking right? TH doesn't have something similar to the calliope, a tank with a working (ableit ineffective) turret and the ability to just shit on every unit in a given area via massive indirect-fire volleys? Did the rocket hotchkiss just stop existing?

Not sure what you mean by the second part.

1.) I was referring to the off map regular artillery barrage via tank commander, something this is highly effective and often overlooked by us armor players who are busy spamming he rounds and calliope barrages...

2.) The hotchkiss is 4 rockets, low firing angle, available only as an upgrade to an already outclassed and underwelming unit. It takes far more care and luck to hit anything with them.

3.)The end is referring to off map mortar barrage, something other officers/command units already have.

[CGarr]

All that did was give PS doc the same ability us tank commanders have had forever, on top of the ever present calliope...something that was incredibly lacking for TH doc.

I agree it shouldnt really be an offmap targeted thing, thats the whole point of some officers, unless we just gave the ability to the SS hauptsturmführer to match what other factions already have...

You're joking right? TH doesn't have something similar to the calliope, a tank with a working (ableit ineffective) turret and the ability to just shit on every unit in a given area via massive indirect-fire volleys? Did the rocket hotchkiss just stop existing?

Not sure what you mean by the second part.

1.) I was referring to the off map regular artillery barrage via tank commander, something this is highly effective and often overlooked by us armor players who are busy spamming he rounds and calliope barrages...

2.) The hotchkiss is 4 rockets, low firing angle, available only as an upgrade to an already outclassed and underwelming unit. It takes far more care and luck to hit anything with them.

3.)The end is referring to off map mortar barrage, something other officers/command units already have.

1. You mentioned the calliope before making the statement about TH lacking something, so I assumed you meant the last thing that was mentioned. TH has a tank commander arty ability in the beta already (something I pushed for heavily if you want to go back through the TH rework threads) so I'm not sure what you're complaining about.

2. Those 4 rockets hit way harder than the calliope rockets and get their total damage on target much faster since the barrage isn't as long. Calliope rockets can damage tanks a bit, only really getting kills on tanks that are already near death (assuming you even score a direct hit, as they don't have as huge of a splash radius as the hotchkiss rockets). You probably aren't going to score more than 2 or 3 hits on a static tank unless you're really close, due to how large of an area the calliope covers. It's definitely better against inf, but not by a large margin. It also costs CP. The hotchkiss is 0CP in non-beta can severely damage tanks with that same single rocket, as well as just outright killing tanks under 50% health if you score a good hit. The splash from the rockets covers a massive area, so the difference in anti-inf capability is negligible consider both are capable of emptying an area of inf presence. The calliope barrage has a longer area denial effect due to the nature of how long the barrage takes, but it doesn't have the same wipe potential that the hotchkiss has. A direct hit on a squad with a calliope will probably kill 3-4 guys, wiping the squad if you get really lucky. A direct hit (or even near-enough misses) from a hotchkiss is pretty much guaranteed to wipe a squad, destroy an AT gun, or severely damage/kill an emplacement/tank. As for the 2 units' usefulness outside of combat, both are terrible at killing anything other than light vehicles and the sherman costs 90-120 muni to be good at killing inf (nevermind the fact that you can't give HE to the calliope, its a seperate unit from the sherman). I myself have pushed for the hotchkiss to be buffed so that it isn't as garbage in terms of frontline combat, as it has the potential to be a scary presence on the field as an early armor option for PE. viewtopic.php?f=15&t=3597

I'm not sure if they've decided what to do with the hotchkiss yet for beta/post rework changes, as a lot of people are pushing for the CP unlock in the new TH doc to give a wespe or grille instead of a hotchkiss, as the latter 2 would be better for knocking out emplacements and countering arty. The hotchkiss would then probably take the place of the wespe on SE, as the wespe and hummel are a bit redundant in function and the hotchkiss would add some variety there. Whatever happens to the hotchkiss in terms of availability, pretending that it is significantly worse than the calliope as an arty unit is ridiculous.

3. Name all the exact instances in the beta where that ability is available to officers and I might agree with you, but off the top of my head, I'm pretty sure only propaganda doc has it on their officer by default. TH doc has it available on the 20mm car, not the officer (a more mobile platform, slightly less fragile option that I'm pretty sure has longer range for the call-in). US has it on airborne squads after a CP unlock, although I'm not sure if that is still the case after the AB inf changes. The royal artillery doc version for CW (as well as the inf doc version if they have one, don't remember but I'm pretty sure they don't in beta) requires that you build mortar pits before using it, as it is a victor target ability, not an offmap bombardment. I can't think of any other instances where this ability is available on an officer.