In the current version, the allies are totally OP, and in the BETA version allies are rediculousy OP.
The main point of this post is to point out that allies are OVERALL stronger than axis.
Brits for example have cheaper and faster access to every type of units and more diversity than any other faction. I mean all you really have to do is look at the overall win percentages of players, where brits top the list with an insane margin, and USA is second, then axis.
And in the beta they are even stronger, despite having a statistically higher win ratio in the current version.
Brits are overpowered compared to the other factions, and axis are 20-30% weaker. Yet axis get nerfs across the board? There's some kind of subjective issue going on here.
This is what developers have done in the BETA:
-MG42 are nerfed
-Hotchkiss is nerfed from 0 to 5 OP
-Pgj 48 is nerfed from 1 to 4 OP
-Defense bunkers are nerfed to not have upgrades, this destroys defense doctrine
-Volkssturm sucks and overlap with pioneers
-Axis AA (anti-air) can't shoot down allies planes
-Axis planes cost more yet are useless, this destroys the luftwaffe doctrine
-Axis artillery in general is slower, cost more, takes longer time to get and doesn't shoot as aggressively and accurate as allies artillery
-Allies pay less for howitzer
-Allies Airborne cost less and are equal or even better than Fallskirmsjägers.
-Allies get 2x tank for same ability as axis get 1
-Allies AA IN THEIR BASE shoot down any axis planes on the map in seconds.
Jeeps are better and stronger than Schwimms.
The German MG42 is nerfed and now is as good as the American Heavy Machine Gun, yet is more expensive.
No MG kills, it just suppress a little, that's it.
In the picture above shows one MG42 behind full sandbagcovers, it's shooting 5 riflemen infantries on a open field that have NO COVER. The only thing that happens is that a few riflemen dies, the majority get suppressed and are able to crawl and throw grenades at the MG42 and win.
Let's say I put an MG42 in a house. Allies infantry get suppressed, crawl out in the open area while the MG42 is just continuously shooting at them, and then the allies infantry throws a grenade inside that house and BOOM, MG42 squad is dead. With 83nd Airborne that has a free ability to resist the suppression, the MG42 can't do ANYTHING against them, at all. They will be able to run around like supermen throw grenades and do whatever the hell they want.
You suppress some units for a little time with the MG42, but they will eventually be able to crawl and throw grenades anyway, a developer under the name Markr said that the purpose of the MG (both MG42 and American Heavy Machinegun Team) is not to kill but to suppress.
American riflemen can get an upgrade on their rifles that makes them automatic AND they also suppress axis infantries with it, it's M1918 Browning Automatic Rifle (BAR) an upgrade Americans can do on their base for a low cost. The American riflemen with this upgrade are now BETTER than the MG42 since it both kills and suppress.
The German MG42 is made equal to the American Heavy Machinegun team, they both suck, yet the German MG42 cost 60 manpower more.
ONE Airborne-unit that cost 385 manpower can take down the whole axis base alone, with help of maybe 1 or 2 airplane strikes.
Allies can litterly drop spotters everywhere on the map in seconds as well. That is insane and is a good argument alone that allies are OP right there. Allies are able to see what the enemy does far beyond enemy lines which is a HUGE advantage. Spotters are A-O in this game, if you can see what the enemy player has, you know exacly what to do against him.
The Brits have a truck now that cost nothing, and it shoots artillery and penetrate Tigers.
It's a truck foks, cost nothing and can be produce in early game.
Allies can also drop a 75mm M1A1 L716 Pack Howitzer that cost 325 manpower and 25 munition, that is nothing, it's also the best artillery in the game.
Allies can get tanks and armored cars very quickly while spending a little amount of resources.
Allies can also drop a 75mm M1A1 L716 Pack Howitzer that cost 325 manpower and 25 munition, that is nothing and it is the best artillery in the game.
Allies can get tanks and armored cars faster with less resources.
If you start a game with high resources you start with 50 fuel:
Since starting with low resources is an advantage for allies because allies have jeeps they can make in very early game and get out fast with and axis has nothing to counter them with, light AT has no real chance since they are slow and clymsy, what axis bring out in early game to counter jeeps is basicly volksgranadiers. If Volks are not behind cover, jeeps shoot volksgranadiers down easy. Often, Jeeps shoots them down fast on open fields before Volksgranadiers even have a chance to run to cover anyway. With all this said: Axis are forced to start with high resources for a better balance, but yet will be overrun by armored cars from allies pretty soon.
This also means that allies can get their Shermans out very fast too in mid-early game by first dominating the map with Jeeps in the start, make armored cars just 1-2 minutes into the game, get all the good resources and then spend just 30 fuel in upgrades to get Tank Depot and then the Tank Depot itself which cost 50 fuel, that is 80 fuel which they have to gain. How long will that take? Around 2-3 minutes depending on the map and then make their first Sherman. Axis have to struggle to recover from the lose of resources and important areas on the map in early game because of the jeep-attacks, and even IF even survive the armored car-attack it will be very hard to suddenly be prepared to face off Shermans right after the jeeps.
Here you can see them both compared to each other:
Wehrmacht Quarters is 15 fuel + Escilate to Skirmish is 20 fuel then Kreig-Barracks is 15 fuel and then escalate to Assult Phase that cost 30 fuel and this all takes a long time to upgrade, and then finally Panzer Factory for 50 fuel.
130 fuel and 875 manpower in total for Wehrmacht to get the Panzer Factory up in order to produce tanks (that will also cost more).
This is the total cost of progressing through the tech-tree:
I am fine keeping these high cost for axis, and I think most axis players are fine with it, BUT then axis-units have to be better because they cost more. The advantage of allies should be that they can make MORE units faster and cheaper, but not equaliy as good.
Axis should be all about quality in general.
Allies all about quantity in general.
Right now, allies have units that are equal or even better than axis and can produce them cheaper and faster.
Airborne vs Luftwaffe tactics:
First of, axis have to upgrade their main base with this:
In order to reduce their cost, allies already have cheaper plane-abilities, no need in the upgrades for the allies.
It also requares commandpoints to be unlocked, which will take time.
Airborne plane abilllities are superior and cheaper. The picture above kind of shows how absurd the damage is with the abillities that the planes has.
Airborne have better planes, and allies AA can shoot down axis planes in a second with 95% chance of hitting the plane, while axis AA have a 5% chance at best to take down any allies planes except allies bombingplanes, then it's 0% of taking them down.
Luftwaffe planes cost more. Luftwaffe has to upgrade their base after unlocking the bombing planes in order to get it cheaper, but when used allies AA IN THEIR BASE will shoot down any axis plane on the whole map immediately. Airborne need no upgrades, they have planes cheaper from the beginning.
Both the Brittish overpowered SAS Paratroopers and 82nd Airborne Rangers have 2 bazookas without any extra costs, while most devs want to remove that ONE Panzerschreck from the Fallskirmsjägers. Yet Kwok says this:
Fallskirmsjägers are actually cheaper in this BETA version, I give the devs a point for that, that IS good, usually they cost 550 manpower.
82nd Airborne Rangers cost 475 manpower, only 75 manpower more than Fallskirmjägers and can ressist suppresson (which means they can run to any bunker, Mortar bunker, MG in a house or anything and throw a grenade or satchel charge and win).
As you can compare, the airborne rangers also have more abilities in general.
The brittish airstrikes are absurd btw.
The planes of Luftwaffe can't be used since they got shot down immediately from the AA in allies base while allies AA is superior and allies airstrikes/bombingplanes are superior. I wasn't even able to take screenshots on how it looks like when they strike except this picture above this text, yet even that one got shot down. It's a PanzerKnacker-plane, it tried to attack Shermans INVADING axis base, yet the AA of allies accross the map shot it down anyway.
The summary of this is that airborne is far superior to luftwaffe, while luftwaffe sucks and will be a waste of time to pick for any axis player.
Mortarbunker is totally useless, takes a lot of time to unlock and takes around 4-5 minutes to build, when it is finally up brits can bomb it easily in 10 seconds or get some Glider down beside it and throw some heavy bombs in it which will take out it in a second, or the airborne rangers dropped around it and throw some bombs in to it.
No good axis players will use it.
The only thing that a good axis player would use when it comes to artillery is the Wespe 105mm SP Artillery, but it cost 500 manpower to make and is somewhat slow to use compared to the 105mm Priest Self-Propelled Artillery for example, and it doesn't shoot that accurate. The clusterbombs are USELESS against allies infantry as well. All it does (if lucky enough to get a full hit) is to take out like 30% of the allies infantry-unit and suppress them for a while, what it SHOULD do is to take out the whole unit 100%.
Brittish artillery for example can shoot very accurately, when it starts it hits very fast, often the brittish artillery hit the same place 3-4 times as well, which is perfect to take out a Mortar-bunker or any other emplacement. While the Wespe for example has it's arty slower and spread out on it is bigger which makes it harder to take out an allies bunker or 105mm M2A1 L/22.5 Howitzer Emplacement, 17-Pounder AT Gun Emplacement or a 87.6mm QF 25 Pounder Mk II L/28 Howitzer Emplacement as an example. If lucky, the wespe will hit one shot on allies emplacement, ONCE but the rest of the artillery will be shot around it, this means that allies artillery emplacements will survive while even the Wespe that is mobile can be shot down with brittish artillery in a few seconds becacuse of how aggressive, fast and accurate the brittish artillery is.
Allies artillery, the American howtizers and everything the brittish have is totally superior to axis.
Calliope can destroy axis base with only 2 barages that cost 90 munition each barage, 180 munition in total to get an axis-base destroyed.
Do we have anythiing on axis side for 180 munition that can totally destroy an allie base? If you know any, write an answer to me under this post.
Axis tanks should be better, but overall they aren't when you see the whole picture.
Axis tanks cost more and are slower, and allies have heavier tanks that cost less, here are the specifics.
Pershings are better than both Tigers and Panthers. Panthers are the only tanks in the simulair price-range that have a chance to take out a Pershing.
Normal Tigers have no chance against Pershings if they face each other.
M4A3(76) W Sherman is almost equal to a VI Ausf. E Tiger "Late Version".
Sherman 76 can penetrate a Tiger E lateversion without any special munition requiered. It's true that the damage from a Tiger is greater, but with two Shermans 76, they can easily take down a Tiger.
Sherman 76 can even penetrate and do damage against a King Tiger without using any special bullets or anything.
The Sherman 76 is acctually the best tank in the whole game when you look at what it can do and what it cost.
M4A3(76) W Sherman cost 450 manpower and 55 fuel.
Tiger E lateversion SD.kfz cost 865 manpower 170 fuel. That is almost double the price.
King Tiger 1200 manpower and 200 fuel
Super-pershing is better than King Tiger, and we axis players wouldn't have a problem with it since allies can only make ONE and axis can make more King Tigers if the first one dies, but the problem is that there is no other option to take it down, devs have removed the 280mm rockets from the Defence-doctrine that was able to take out the Super-Percing, the axis planes are useless in taking down the tanks and Scored Earth artillery slow and is not accurate, there is absolutly NOTHING axis can do against the super-pershing. Maybe if we get 4 Panters surrounding it and shoot it from the back, but how realistic is that scenario?
The German Half-truck (20mm KwK) that is suppose to be "very effective against allies infantries" can drive around and keep on shooting, it only suppresses allies infantry but doesn't do much damage.
These are never going to be used by any sane axis-player to counter allies infantry.
The Pz.Kpfw IV Ausf F2 that is supposed to be good against infantry can't even shoot down ONE engineer-guy on open field with it's MG or it's cannon. Seriously.
We tested this, ONE allies engineer was running on an open field while this Pz.Kpfw IV Ausf F2 tried to hunt it down, and it failed.
This tank that supposed to be "very effective against medium armor and infantry" is totally usless against infantry in other words IF not used the upgraded explosive shot which cost 25 minution to upgrade and 25 munition to use each time, 20 seconds reload-time. Facing more than 1 allies infantry with bazookas is gg for the Pz.Kpfw IV Ausf F2.
This goes with the Panther as well, both it's cannon and the MG have a difficult time to kill allies infantries.
Allies infantries just get pinned down at best.
American can make 2 Jumbos in this BETA-version as well.
Can you see the total picture that allies tanks (including the price and everything) are BETTER than axis?
Allies are OP in EVERY SINGLE WAY.
Better tanks, better infantries, better artillery, better AT, better and faster armored cars, better AA, better planes, for low cost and can be produced faster.
From early, to mid and late-game, allies are OP.
Instead of just trashing the BETA I want to be constructive.
Here is some summary of suggestions on how it should be in order to balance this:
- Keep allies having their units cheaper in general, but then they also should be less good. The advantage of allies should be that they can spam units faster and cheaper. Axis-units in general cost more, should also be a little better.
Two German Granadiers should be equal to about four American riflemen.
The German MG42 SHOULD be OP compared to the American Heavy Machine Gun (HMG), it should totally schred any American or brittish infantry in 2 seconds on an open field, just as the MG42 does in the current version, that IS a strengh that the Germans should have.
Mg42 is the killer! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxDauR7REPw
It's not like it's impossible to kill the MG42 in the current version when it is like that, allies just have to be more careful, be smart, use mortars, snipers, crawl and hide to take it out etc, or use any type of armored car or tank really.
German tanks should just be a little bit better in general and not equal to Shermans and other allies tanks in general, but ofcourse cost more (as they already do).
When an axis player has finally made their expensive tank, even if it isn't a Tiger or Panther, but just a normal Panzer IV, Jagdpanzer 48 or Jagdpanzer 70 and put it out on the field the axis player should FEEL powerful somehow, and allies need to be more humble about how to take the tank out, not just confront it direcly with a M4 Sherman as if it was equal. There are lots of creative ways to take out stronger German tanks anyway, allies can hide their ATs, PAITs, Bazookas, take them out with planes, sticky-bombs and a whole lot of other options.
- German artillery should have more diversity, strengh and damage.
The hummel for example, if it's going to cost as much as it does and takes a lot of commandpoints to unlock, be as clumsy as it is and not that accurate at a target, at least the shots that DO hit on allies should make an absurd amount of damage. The allied players should only hope that the clumsy hummel misses their emplacements or whatever they have there being targeted.
The Wesbe should be the opposite, it should be more quick and accurate, but cost less and do less damage.
Clusterbombs should take out most allies infantries in one hit, not do 10% damage and make them suppressed a little.
The Mortar Bunker from the Scored Earth should be very hard to destroy, allies need in my opinion basically to install bombs on it with engineers and detonate it like 2-3 times, it should be almost impossible to destroy with arty.
I suggest also that booby traps should get a little stronger as well.
- We have already talked about the AA on discord, that allies AA are too strong and need to be fixed, seems like devs understood that at least, but just need to be pointed out on this list too.
One PanzerKnacker-plane should cost 50 munition and reload faster, like the first planes two planes need reloadtime of 5 seconds, after that, 10 seconds. Yes this is valid. In the current version the Luftwaffe can send like 8 PanzerKnacker-planes at one area and shoot down any allies tank in that area. Many planes get shot down, others miss the tank, so maybe one or two planes actually hits the allies tanks and takes out at best 3 tanks. That cost 200 munition.
Now in BETA, it cost like 170 munition for what I can remember for ONE PanzerKnacker-plane. No, if you are going to send ONE plane, it has to be a lot cheaper, 50 munition is reasonable since it's not even sure that the plane will even take out the allied tank or survive.
In balance to this, the airborne can get more diversity-options for their planes, more types of anti-infantry strikes. The p-47 anti-tank rockets can take out an jagdtiger very fast, I suggest it should keep the past cost because it is so powerful.
When allies spam Shermans everywhere, a luftwaffe without any tanks should be able to counter them with fast panzerknacker-planes. One plane (50 minution) bam takes out one Sherman, and one other plane bam, (oops, misses the other Sherman) but then again 10 seconds later whoom got half of it's life. 150 munitions in total for that, but at least it was a way for the axis player to defend himself against the spam of Shermans if he didn't have tanks there.
The Stormtroopers and other types of simulair german infantries should be strong, as people expect. When one or two stormtroopers run into an allies area, the allies-players should feel a little feeling of "oh shit, they are coming", and do smart moves to confront them. Not send an equally as good riflemen squad or something and shoot the stormtroopers down like nothing.
- Bring back the 280mm rockets in defence-doctrine and the V1 from the sky in the terror-doctrine without any sturmtiger needed to shoot the V1, or "propaganda-doctrine" as devs call it in the BETA version.
No, it is not more OP to have these abillities than the The p-47 anti-tank rockets from the airborne. If airborne can bring that powerful strikes from the sky for 200 munition, Defence and Terror-doctrine should do, in their own way. V1 will reload for a lot of time anyway, so no it wouldn't be OP, it will just hit one target very very hard and maybe be used one or two times in a ordenary match.
Tiger E Lateversion, all kinds of Tigers actually should be much more violent against everything really. It should be very good at fighting american and brittish infantries, even if bazooka-teams and PIAT Anti-Tank Squads tries to surround it, it should be a HARD time for allies. Tigers should take out most allies tanks. Only very heavy allies tanks like Pershings, SuperPershing, Pershing Ace, firefly, Jackssons, Churchills should be able to penetrate it, and AT-cannons like 17 pounder of course. Allies bombing-planes can also be used to take down these tigers.
No Sherman should EVER be able to penetrate the Tiger (WATCH THE VIDEO)
No, you don't have to make Tigers cost more for this either than they already do, remember that everything in basebuilding and time for axis is more expensive and takes longer time. Keep the same price for the Tigers but make them better.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... =emb_title
The 20 mm Halftrack KwK should also kill alot faster, since it's "very effective against infantries".