US Quad HT and Jeep

[lunarwolf]

1. US quad HT range seems a bit high. also it pulverizes 37mm and 50mm pak, since they cannot one shoot a HT. frontally the HT can decimate the AT crew, it doesn't even have to bother flanking. surely a quad HT is not an appropriate counter to a pak!

2. jeep are OP for their price. they can destroy scout cars and PE 37mm HT , which come later and are more expensive to produce. (never seen a schwim or motorcycle take down a US halftrack) by the time they are fielded US have many counters to scout cars such as AT guns, AT squads etc....


my 2 cents

[Warhawks97]

1. Just as i do with my Tanks. When i drive towards an pak and if those is not in ambush and fails to hit or bounce the Mg of the tank kills the crew fast as well.... also its qaud cal 50 and should be decent against inf and weapon crews etc. Its good as this prevents paks to be used as offensive weapon frequently.

2. ehm.... what? a cal 30?..... a cal 50 jeep deals damage to scout vehicle but comes later.... and against 37 mm HT? oO..... Is it against bot? In pvp nobody would send a cal 30 (or even cal 50) to attack a 37 mm HT or scout vehicle on full HP

[Sukin-kot (SVT)]

Quad call is just good and its ok, jeep is BULLSHIT and early game balance breaker, i can kill bike, engs and volks with it just in the beginning.

[MarKr]

1. US quad HT range seems a bit high. also it pulverizes 37mm and 50mm pak, since they cannot one shoot a HT. frontally the HT can decimate the AT crew, it doesn't even have to bother flanking. surely a quad HT is not an appropriate counter to a pak!

It has standard weapon range. Certainly not greater than PaKs. Also it is 4x .50cal shooting at bunch of soldiers so in terms of firepower it is ok. In terms of durability it is no better than any other US HT.

2. jeep are OP for their price. they can destroy scout cars and PE 37mm HT , which come later and are more expensive to produce. (never seen a schwim or motorcycle take down a US halftrack) by the time they are fielded US have many counters to scout cars such as AT guns, AT squads etc....

And I have never seen 30cal jeep take down an Axis HT...

jeep is BULLSHIT and early game balance breaker, i can kill bike, engs and volks with it just in the beginning.

When I was able to kill jeep, engineers and Rifles in the beginning of the game with Schwimm/Bike in previous versions it was OK but when their counterpart acts similarly it is a Bullshit? Can you see the irony too?

[Sukin-kot (SVT)]

When I was able to kill jeep, engineers and Rifles in the beginning of the game with Schwimm/Bike in previous versions it was OK but when their counterpart acts similarly it is a Bullshit? Can you see the irony too?

Thats simply not true because the only problem was low damage of AT boys to schwimm, Jeep still could kill bike or schwim face to face in old versions, rifles also could kill it easily when in good cover (and not beeing supressed like volks in green cover by BS jeep now. And 1 more time, idk why you and wolf cant read it, JEEP REQUIRES 5 TIMES MORE RIFLE BULLETS FOR BEING DESTROYED THAN BIKE OR SCHWIM.

[MarKr]

Jeep still could kill bike or schwim face to face in old versions

I can remember posts like "Bike/Schwimm + Pios can always take down Jeep + Engineers. Jeep damages Bike/Schwimm and Pios start to repair it. Jeep takes damage from Bike/Schwimm, Engineers start repairng but get immediately suppressed while Pios get never suppressed because Jeep had no suppression."

Also how is it possible that some players claim the Jeep is completely fine (both playing with and against it) and some players claim it is totally OP now?

[Krieger Blitzer]

Well, the basic Jeep recently is suppressing the enemy inf units quite fast actually ^^ But still I find no problems with it The Schwim current weak armor than as supposed is the only real problem right now in my opinion...

However that I think I never got a clear answer considering the 'Vehicles Reverse Button' Is it anyhow possible to be added??!!

[Wake]

Quad call is just good and its ok, jeep is BULLSHIT and early game balance breaker, i can kill bike, engs and volks with it just in the beginning.

Holy shit, just built an AT gun. Is it that hard?

This is literally the same argument as the scout car. Allied players HAVE to built an AT gun or boys and keep them with their entire army in the beginning, or else the scout car will kill them all.

Maybe your übermensch soldaten can't actually soak up MG bullets like they did before. Did you try putting them in cover? You know allied units have to be in cover if they encounter a bike or schwimm.

[Warhawks97]

Idk..... I had game with schwimm and i kept it alive till end of the game.... it takes bit less damage here but i dont see a prob oO. It smashes, suppresses and kills inf without and yellow cover very fast and still much faster as jeep does.

The Jeep was able to suppress pios but that was all. I could still run head on with my Volks untill reaching green cover. And PGrens or Volks behind green cover get not damage or suppression at all by jeep (or even recovers from it) and kills those pretty fast with powerfull k98. Its actually not a big deal for me with WE against them. Before jeep buff i did a "one unit spam" of volks and i could beat everything (esspecially once i reached some cover). Now i am building volks+ pak and then another volks or sniper while before i had simply 2 volks+sniper. Its not so easy anymore to run and flank all enemie units with group of volks ignoring the jeep entirely. I now need a pak to cover my volks when running over field with them just as i have to do it with US and its ok for me. The Killing rate of jeep hasnt really changed and the suppression allows at least to slow down the enemie inf assaults and to react on them better. But i wouldnt consider it as huge balance breaker just because i need a pak now as axis as well just as i do as allied. And Volks+Pak with HE rounds, pios and maybe a bike is still a fearsome offensive combo.

Maybe the jeep takes a bit to much damage or eating too many bullets but rather nerf jeeps HP/armor instead increasing schwimms HP/armor.... those vehicles are small unarmored reconassaince vehicles providing flexible fire support and preventing enemie to run over fields easily and in my opinion jeep and schwimm did eat too many bullets.

[Sukin-kot (SVT)]

Come to 1v1 with me Warhawks, and you will loose it in first minutes because of Jeep.

[Wake]

Come to 1v1 with me Warhawks, and you will loose it in first minutes because of Jeep.

Are you banking on killing his AT gun? Or circle-strafing it? Because you could say the same thing about winning in the first minutes with a scout car if you destroy the enemy AT gun.

[Sukin-kot (SVT)]

One more time, scout car is a vehicle from different cattegorie.

[Wake]

Current jeep is more or less the same as the pre-patch (not bugged) schwimm. Unless enemy infantry have an AT weapon, they will likely have to retreat. And with good micro, you can keep it out of range of the infantry AT weapon.

I still love the way the jeep is now, though. It's actually a serious threat to early game axis, and forces them to be more cautious at the start of each game.

As for the jeep vs light PE vehicles, it's all about luck. A jeep can actually kill a scout car pretty easily but the scout car can do the same to the jeep. It's happened a lot, and I think it's all just luck. I have seen my jeep destroy infantry halftracks and the light AT halftrack, but I have also tried to destroy scout cars with the jeep and the scout car very easily won. Sometimes the jeep's first burst does a lot of damage, sometimes it does almost none.

[Warhawks97]

Ok.... against WE the jeep is crazy. Esspecially when paks like to miss several times in a row. For some reason the Jeep is very bulletproof. Nerf durability but not the efficency against inf.

[Wolf]

But we didn't even touch jeeps armor, hitpoints or whatever that could increase its durability -.-
The only change it that is that it suppressed infantry = infantry fires less bullets on jeep.

[Sukin-kot (SVT)]

[Warhawks97]

But we didn't even touch jeeps armor, hitpoints or whatever that could increase its durability -.-
The only change it that is that it suppressed infantry = infantry fires less bullets on jeep.

yeah.... before nobody cared about it as jeeps got ignored simply and died later by some gunfire. No when, when we "learned" to fear the jeep and that it is denying inf we realized how many bullets it could eat. Also before it could kill or suppress inf the enemie infantry fired always with its full squad firewpoer at jeep. Due to losses in squads and the suppression unit squads losing 50% of their firepower against jeeps and the jeep survives even longer. It wasnt your fault and all we could do was to bet what will happen to balance.

Thing is that the MG is ok so far now just it can take a number of MG salvos which non of these 3 vehicles should do. But one question to the MG now: Is the suppression against Pgrens better as against volks? My volks got not suppressed by it when having green cover but PE grens got suppressed by depsite perfect cover.


Also since jeep can deny inf movment the early US stage changed entirely and axis offenisve with inf got slowed down or forced to stay in cover just like the US once did. This together with early Jumbo and later Tank IV spam allows US to be more dominant and having one of the best early vehicles and best early heavy armored tank. The Jumbo could require supply yard maybe to delay the appearence of it a bit.


Edit: A jeep with 22 kills.... and? My personal record was 84 with an old schwimmwagen. And you had schwimmwagens every day with vet 3 and many kills. So whats so special now on jeep with 22 kills? oO

Edit II: If someone comes now with in 1 vs 1 i cant beat faction x with faction y anymore i would say its a bit kind of "balance" or "cross- balance". Just as WE is a bit fucked vs jeep now when pak fails to hit US is also fucked when schwimms passing the paks. It can be said that US is good vs WE, PE vs US, CW vs PE and so on. Still PE had to fear US sniper just as US their scout vehicles. WE vs US is unbalanced in early as the US has everyhting WE has just that US vehicle kills WE vehicle very easily.


Edit III: However i just like radical changes sometimes:P If we keep going then with little patches to adjust such changes its pretty cool. But its really funny how the feeling as axis early-mid game has changed so much just because of a single unit that got buffed a bit:D I need to stay in a defensive or i have to check out at least where the best cover is when playing axis as i am used to when playing allied. Thats cool and early game is really more dependent of which units are being build and who has the better unit controle. Just that jeep beats axis inf behind green cover and that it soaks a lots of bullets is stupid but everything else is cool now in early game

[Wake]

I don't think the jeep suppression or quality vs infantry should be changed.

In Sukin's picture, Terrence mentions that grenadiers are fearing the jeep. That makes sense. Before this patch that broke schwimm armor, most allied infantry feared the schwimm. Hell, a bike once massacred my entire ranger squad. A schwimm could also ANNIHILATE commandos. A schwimm could also kill a good portion of an infantry section.

I say all this, though, assuming that the allied infantry are out of cover. All of this changes when the infantry is in cover. It applies to allied and current axis squads. Axis now need to play like the allies in early game: Either keep your infantry close to your AT gun, or get them in heavy cover ASAP.

Jeep vs units in cover is not very good at all. One game I had a PE Panzergrenadier squad behind a wall of heavy cover, and there were 2 jeeps shooting at them at about medium range. The squad was instantly suppressed and lost a man right away, but once they crawled into cover, they stopped losing health. They were still suppressed, but it was more or less a stalemate. A solid minute later, the PE squad hadn't lost any more men and was still only suppressed.

[Warhawks97]

The jeep suppression vs units behind heavy cover need to be tested. Volks seem to be more resistant to jeeps suppression as Pgrens which got relatively quickly pinned. The Volks got not pinned at all for some reason when having cover. In one game the Pgrens recovered from suppression reaching green cover and in two cases they got pinned.

And yeah i like the efficency vs inf but the "1 vs 1" against conterparts needs some love. And none should be able to stay concentrated fire from inf squads in cover for long or many MG bursts. All currently can deny enemie inf movment well which is good.

[lunarwolf]

sorry but saying a quad is a counter to pak is rubbish. this breaks balance, since no inf squad can even get close to it. that thing annihilates inf in no time.
LOL, I just took out a marder 3 with a quad gun halftrack.

my volks were in a building (valkensgrad with plenty of windows) and couldn't take out a jeep that was parked at the doorstep. it is absurd to compare a jeep to scout car. they don't cost the same and don't enter battlefield at same time. jeep is build from hq at start, scout car costs more + fuel and from logistics center! try playing axis and you will se how jeeps damage scout cars and PE halftracks, it's unreal. also jeep is very fast and dodges pak 37 way too many times. jeep should be more like moto or schwim not a haltrack or scout car.

[Warhawks97]

damn... which jeep compared to scout car?


Do you play vs bots? if so then bot units are always strange.


And i did not say that quad is counter to pak..... who the hell attacks pak with quad when pak is ambushed. An exposed Pak not in ambush can be a nice target for the quad and i said its good vs all sorts of inf and weapon crews.


Damn i sometimes do head on attacks with Tank IV´s on 76 mm Paks and killing those..... is it unbalanced now?! If i see a pak relaoding or not ambushed or shooting another target i do attack them with my Tanks... why not? should bullets of vehicles deal no damage at all to paks just because they are not supposed to kill them?


And hell i do play axis a lot and i never seen a fucking cal 30 jeep dealing any damage to a scout car. The cal 50 jeeps can and scout can beat cal 50 jeep but jeep also the scout vehicles but the Jeep requires two buildings and PE just one and also PE starts with 10 fuel more at start so a scout car comes much earlier as any cal 50 jeep.

And who builds 3 quad cal 50 to hunt a marder in pvp.... next time i see a marder i build 3 quad cal 50 and hunt it or what..... nice waste of res as at least one HT or rather two will die first.... or there are simply two marders or an ambushed pak etc. This is so... idk.... nonsense in pvp.

[Wolf]

.30 cal does some damage to scout car, but not much (atleast from the front), however it wasn't changed, so if thats the case, it must have been in 4.7 too.

[lunarwolf]

warhauks,

I never said 3 quad HT to kill a marder, I said 1 quad HT killed a marder 3 tank. please read before commenting.

I was talking about the 30 cal jeep, since it is the only one available at the start, sorry if that was unclear. 30 cal jeeps not only damage scout car, which they have in the past, but now it seems they do a lot more damage to PE halftrack w/ pak 37mm gun on it. (BTW speaking of other jeeps, my P4 aus J from blitz doc got 1 shot frontally from a recoiless jeep!, I guess I was unlucky)

when I was referring to quads decimating paks it was in stationary position/ambush, obviously I wouldn't have made the comment if the pak was on the move!

I have noticed that you always want to monopolize discussions, yet you hardly represent the community yet you speak as if you are some sort of authority. this forum is just a few people that bothered to migrate to this new forum, hardly the whole BK playing community.

[Warhawks97]

Well, i guess you got very close to the Marder III if you killed it with a quad coz on longer distances it would take a long time to kill it.

And the cal 30 has little damage to scout vehicles and and HT and its almost 0 (except hitting rear from very close distance).


And aboout paks... well maybe sort of unlucky that pak failed. Its possible to beat at guns when driving very fast on their flanks but i do the same with pumas so why not with quad cal 50 as well. At the other side HT´s in general have quickly engine destroyed with one hit from 28 and 37 mm guns. But as i said, i am also attacking ambushed heavy paks sometimes with medium tanks and kill them even when those are ambushed.


Also 20 mm kills Hellcats as well and a marder is even weaker armored as a hellcat btw. A Puma can kill a Hellcat quite fast from mid and short distance but deals also damage to it on long. Fact is that the cal 50 was the multipurpose weapon on allied side such as the 20 mm is/was for axis. And as long as i can kill hellcats with 20 mm canons i have no prob when the one or other armored vehicle (marder is no exception and in fact weaker armored as a sdkfz 234 Puma) is taken out by cal 50´s.

[lunarwolf]

1. I was at range when I killed marder w/ quad. I was kiting so it wouldn't shoot me. it wasn't insta kill but still quick enough to do the job

2. 30 cal jeep does not do such little damage as u say. it can destroy a PE halftrack hitting it from front, side or rear

3. I didn't know about a 20mm flak killing a hellcat, imo it should not be able to do that. I am fine with 20mm flak killing light vehicles like halftracks, or m8 or anything built in that building but not a tank from tank depot.