In this game there are roughly three classes of vehicles: Light, medium, and heavy.
Light vehicles are like jeeps, schwimmwagens, scout cars, Pumas, and quad halftracks.
Medium vehicles are Panzer 4's and shermans.
Heavy Tanks are like Tigers, Pershings, Jumbos, and Churchills.
Likewise, every faction has 3 classes of AT guns: Light (37mm), medium (50mm & 57mm), and heavy (75mm & 76mm).
Usually, it takes a cooresponding AT gun to destroy a matching vehicle. Light AT guns to light vehicles, PaK 40 to Jumbos, etc.
This is true for all of the factions except for the US. The "middle" or medium AT gun, the 57mm, is almost useless, because it cannot reliably take on any axis medium vehicles. A 57mm AT gun will struggle to penetrate a panzer 4. I just played a game where I was axis, and my Panzer 4 was able to destroy 3 57mm AT guns simply by shooting them. They must have fired at least 2 or 3 shots each at my panzer 4, and of those, just 1 shot penetrated and did about 33% damage.
The thing is, the 57mm AT gun doesn't fill a role. It's only reliable against light vehicles, but US players already have a 37mm AT gun that is actually BETTER in many cases. The 57mm AT gun has a ridiciously long reload time, and takes 2 shots to destroy most light vehicles. Let's take the puma for example. The light 37mm will destroy that in 2 or 3 shots. The medium 57mm will also take 2 or sometimes 3 shots. But in this case, the light AT gun is better because it shoots much faster and is more mobile.
Make the 57mm AT gun better vs medium vehicles, such as the panzer 4. Currently, it doesn't fill its role as a medium AT gun, and as a light AT gun, the 37mm AT gun does that job better.
I would also like to note that AT gun prices are little bit off. For the US, from light to medium to heavy, it goes 200 MP > 250 > 300. For Axis, it's 200 >230 > 330. For British, they get just the 17 pounder, which costs a whopping 440 MP. In another comparison, the US 76mm AT gun and the 17 pounder are actually pretty similar in performance. Both can usually destroy Tigers and other heavy axis tanks, making either the 17 pounder overpriced or the 76mm underpriced. As for the medium 57mm AT gun vs 50mm Pak 38, because the US one costs more, it should have better performance relative to the cheaper Pak 38, which it does not. Pak 38 easily beats shermans, while the 57mm struggles against panzer 4's.
Note: British 6 Pounder AT Gun = 57mm AT gun and the 17 Pounder = 76.2mm
US 57mm AT Gun - Useless?
-
Warhawks97
- Posts: 5395
- Joined: 23 Nov 2014, 21:45
- Location: Germany
Re: US 57mm AT Gun - Useless?
i was thinking about to open a topic named "lottery guns". I also dont understand US guns at all. Its like having always 50:50 chance to pen the enemie.
The 57 is weird and yeah i usually ignore it with my Tank IV´s. But sometimes it happens tha this gun pens Tank IV´s 4 times in a row and killing them with two shots without any AP rounds while sometimes they cant pen a Tank IV with special AP rounds. The rof is or should be the same as 50 mm (wolf changed it).
The 76 is very weird and far from 17 pounders power. The 76 can pen actually everything with AP rounds but withoutits kinda pointless. In a recent game i did escape once with Tank IV from 76 gun shooting from close range and then i did overrun a 76 mm with Tank IV´s and 4 shots from long-mid range bounced from my Tanks. The weapons are very weird and without ammo for special AP rounds i do not even dare to shot at stug III´s.
The medium paks 50 mm and 57. Historically 57 was slightly better and in 44 neither US nor Axis had special AP rounds (only brits had powerfull special AP ronds). Thing is and thats what i dont get is that 50 mm has usually no prob penetrating shermans which actually have 90 mm effective armor due to angel. Overmatching for 50 mm doesnt work as the armor plates are 62-65 and on lower e8 glacis up to 100 mm thick. Still 50 mm has no probs penning shermans usually. The US/CW 57 mm is a bit stronger as 50 mm and has to pen 80 mm unslopped 80 mm Tank IV armor but struggles a lot more to pen those.
Still i like the 57 mm actually although i think its overpriced or 50 mm underpriced. Most axis use the Marder I´s, Pumas with 75 mm paks and HT´s to kill and hunt enemie tanks and there i just like the 57 mm pak. The AP rounds cost 50 ammo to activate and then it should be able to take on Tank IV´s. Its also more flexibel than 76 mm. I would request here a price drop rather to about 200-220 mp (same for HT) but thats it. Axis in ww2 had the 75 mm pak as most used and build AT gun whereas US standard pak was mostly the 57 mm. Heavier guns got deployed mostly by Tanks (but they didnt struggle fuel in reality).
For many its more annoying not to know what they buy if they buy Tank with 76 mm guns. They either fail to pen Tank Iv´s without HVAP or they simply penetrate Tigers. Here it would make more sense to have a more clear role and stats so that players would know that if they have tanks with these 76 mm guns that those are reliable against axis Mediums but very bad against frontal Panther armor and other heavy armored stuff as long as using basic AP rounds and simply more or less unable to pen KT´s and bigger Tanks frontally.
The 57 is weird and yeah i usually ignore it with my Tank IV´s. But sometimes it happens tha this gun pens Tank IV´s 4 times in a row and killing them with two shots without any AP rounds while sometimes they cant pen a Tank IV with special AP rounds. The rof is or should be the same as 50 mm (wolf changed it).
The 76 is very weird and far from 17 pounders power. The 76 can pen actually everything with AP rounds but withoutits kinda pointless. In a recent game i did escape once with Tank IV from 76 gun shooting from close range and then i did overrun a 76 mm with Tank IV´s and 4 shots from long-mid range bounced from my Tanks. The weapons are very weird and without ammo for special AP rounds i do not even dare to shot at stug III´s.
The medium paks 50 mm and 57. Historically 57 was slightly better and in 44 neither US nor Axis had special AP rounds (only brits had powerfull special AP ronds). Thing is and thats what i dont get is that 50 mm has usually no prob penetrating shermans which actually have 90 mm effective armor due to angel. Overmatching for 50 mm doesnt work as the armor plates are 62-65 and on lower e8 glacis up to 100 mm thick. Still 50 mm has no probs penning shermans usually. The US/CW 57 mm is a bit stronger as 50 mm and has to pen 80 mm unslopped 80 mm Tank IV armor but struggles a lot more to pen those.
Still i like the 57 mm actually although i think its overpriced or 50 mm underpriced. Most axis use the Marder I´s, Pumas with 75 mm paks and HT´s to kill and hunt enemie tanks and there i just like the 57 mm pak. The AP rounds cost 50 ammo to activate and then it should be able to take on Tank IV´s. Its also more flexibel than 76 mm. I would request here a price drop rather to about 200-220 mp (same for HT) but thats it. Axis in ww2 had the 75 mm pak as most used and build AT gun whereas US standard pak was mostly the 57 mm. Heavier guns got deployed mostly by Tanks (but they didnt struggle fuel in reality).
For many its more annoying not to know what they buy if they buy Tank with 76 mm guns. They either fail to pen Tank Iv´s without HVAP or they simply penetrate Tigers. Here it would make more sense to have a more clear role and stats so that players would know that if they have tanks with these 76 mm guns that those are reliable against axis Mediums but very bad against frontal Panther armor and other heavy armored stuff as long as using basic AP rounds and simply more or less unable to pen KT´s and bigger Tanks frontally.
Build more AA Walderschmidt
Re: US 57mm AT Gun - Useless?
Warhawks97 wrote:The 76 is very weird and far from 17 pounders power.
I must just be very lucky with your "lottery guns". Whenever I make a 76mm AT gun, it works wonders against axis heavy tanks. It's usually my favorite way of killing tigers. In fact, once, I had a camouflaged 76mm destroy one of Tiger1996's Tiger Ace's in just 3 shots, with the 2nd shot damaging the engine and leaving the tiger with about 5% health. Both of us were quite surprised.
To clarify, my main point here is that the 50mm PaK 38 is a very reliable gun vs shermans, while the 57mm AT gun is not very good vs Panzer IV's.
On a side note, the US 37mm AT gun can actually destroy the Ostwind, Wirbelwind, and short barrel panzer 4's from the front with just a few hits.
Re: US 57mm AT Gun - Useless?
37mm AT gun has 0.1 penetration modifier against PZIVs, both 37 and 57 mills have big penetration against ausf D armor, both should be able to penetrate ostwinds and wirbelwinds, 37mm is also bad vs StuG and JPZs armor. Simply put, 37 is not better than 57mm against mediums. To both axis and allied at guns camo first shot bonus is pretty significant. 57mm is not that better against pzivs, due to them costing more, but is also not as bad as its again presented. 50mm AT gun has increased cost in next patch.
