A possible re-work of British Tiering

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MenciusMoldbug
Posts: 135
Joined: 17 Mar 2017, 12:57

A possible re-work of British Tiering

Postby MenciusMoldbug » 06 May 2019, 23:06

When playing with and vs British for sometime in BK I noticed that they have a very linear-playstyle that always goes from AT Boys to Recce to Armor truck/AT weapons stuff. There's no variation to how one can play British because of how most units are locked behind either the officers or the trucks. It turns into more of a 'positioning-warfare' for Brits early-mid game to somehow surprise the Axis with their build order by coming from unexpected directions; not because the Axis don't know what the Brits are building.

If I was to change the British Teching system, it would look like this:

Image

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Legend:

White Line - What is required to build this unit

Orange Line - Possible Reward unit switch-out in the main menu

Dark Green Line - Possible Doctrine unit switch-out

Red Box - Royal Engineer Doctrine Only

Blue Box - Royal Airforce/Commando Doctrine Only

Green Box - Royal Artillery Doctrine Only

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On particular changes of note:

- Bren carrier is allowed without the LT because I want to 'nerf' it to be vulnerable to small arms fire from machineguns and STG44's (especially in close range). In exchange the Bren carrier comes earlier and costs less manpower to field.

- Dingo is now core unit (and requires LT because Dingo rush is still pretty good vs PE) because playing without proper recon as British sometimes is hard enough already.

- 2-inch mortar doesn't require the Support Truck, only the Lieutenant.

- You still need the Lieutenant to unlock the Support Truck.

- The Staghound and 57mm Halftrack are non-doctrinal units (thus available to all doctrines).

- Stuart, 75mm Autocar, and Tetrach do not require Captain as it reveals doctrine choice to Axis players. Which is a huge advantage if for example you know as PE the British player is going RE; then you know which doctrine to pick.

- The 4.2 Inch mortar requires Captain because I think it's a really good mortar; especially with super-charged rounds.

- Cromwell requires Captain before being fielded. The Command Tank, M4A4 Sherman, Crusader, and Mk IV Churchill (with no HE Shells) can all be 'rushed' if one wants them fast.

- Tank Commander is available without requiring the Command Tank because he takes forever to build already (I think his build time should be reduced).

- Command Tank does not require the Captain and you can get the vehicles required afterwards with the CP unlock just having the command tank. At first I thought all of them should require the Captain and Command Tank both. But I hoenstly think it's fine this way because the Captain is locking AT weapons that you might need early-mid game (He will also be locking the 17 pounder emplacement and the 25 pounder emplacement but I didn't put that on the image). Perhaps the only problem would be the HE Churchill Rush coming a bit too fast but then you can just lock only that vehicle behind Captain and Command Tank.

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Basically, it's opening up British tiering so you are a bit more surprised by what the British player builds and sometimes he won't even build the AT-boys from the start if he wants to; giving the shwimmwagens and scout car openings a bit more edge if they surprise the British player (or the other way around). Hopefully it will make British a bit less dull to play around with but this does not include doctrine changes which I might or might not get to later.

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Warhawks97
Posts: 3398
Joined: 23 Nov 2014, 21:45
Location: Germany

Re: A possible re-work of British Tiering

Postby Warhawks97 » 07 May 2019, 10:33

MenciusMoldbug wrote:When playing with and vs British for sometime in BK I noticed that they have a very linear-playstyle that always goes from AT Boys to Recce to Armor truck/AT weapons stuff. There's no variation to how one can play British because of how most units are locked behind either the officers or the trucks. It turns into more of a 'positioning-warfare' for Brits early-mid game to somehow surprise the Axis with their build order by coming from unexpected directions; not because the Axis don't know what the Brits are building.


True, and that issue is known for a long time. The strenght of CW was its tier system, but once getting interrupted, like recce dies too early, you get in huge trouble and comebacks are hard to achieve.


- Bren carrier is allowed without the LT because I want to 'nerf' it to be vulnerable to small arms fire from machineguns and STG44's (especially in close range). In exchange the Bren carrier comes earlier and costs less manpower to field.


But dont make its armor useless. It should not become a normal jeep.




- The Staghound and 57mm Halftrack are non-doctrinal units (thus available to all doctrines).


sounds good and important. All sides have multrole vehicles aka greyhound and Puma etc, just brits lacked it.

- Stuart, 75mm Autocar, and Tetrach do not require Captain as it reveals doctrine choice to Axis players. Which is a huge advantage if for example you know as PE the British player is going RE; then you know which doctrine to pick.


Indeed. US Stuart should perhaps also not require logistic company upgrade.



- Cromwell requires Captain before being fielded. The Command Tank, M4A4 Sherman, Crusader, and Mk IV Churchill (with no HE Shells) can all be 'rushed' if one wants them fast.


yes. But why shall cromwell require captain? For balance?
Perhaps it would be enough with flanking speeds being changed (talking about the ability in general. Lots of vehicles become hilarious racing cars).

Also i hope that we get MK IV (6 pdr gun) and VI (75 mm) and MK V (95 mm howitzer) churchills as early churchills with more realistic armor (101 mm max) and normal MK VII (152-182 mm armor and 75 mm gun) and MK VIII (152 mm armor and 95 mm howitzer) as late game churchill, not just the crocc version of it.
These late versions would ofc require command tank.


- Tank Commander is available without requiring the Command Tank because he takes forever to build already (I think his build time should be reduced).


yes. sounds good.

- Command Tank does not require the Captain and you can get the vehicles required afterwards with the CP unlock just having the command tank. At first I thought all of them should require the Captain and Command Tank both. But I hoenstly think it's fine this way because the Captain is locking AT weapons that you might need early-mid game (He will also be locking the 17 pounder emplacement and the 25 pounder emplacement but I didn't put that on the image). Perhaps the only problem would be the HE Churchill Rush coming a bit too fast but then you can just lock only that vehicle behind Captain and Command Tank.


agreed.
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Basically, it's opening up British tiering so you are a bit more surprised by what the British player builds and sometimes he won't even build the AT-boys from the start if he wants to; giving the shwimmwagens and scout car openings a bit more edge if they surprise the British player (or the other way around). Hopefully it will make British a bit less dull to play around with but this does not include doctrine changes which I might or might not get to later.



I would wish the same for other factions as well.
Its also dull to list vehicles always automatically as "lower tiered" than any tank (even the worst of it).


Instead more flexible options. EG why PE needs inf support center or anything for inf when someone wants rather tanks and vehicles which means only logistic comany and Tank hunter/Tank support command. Meanwhile all inf upgrades would logically require the inf support center.


Or why US needs WSC in order to get access to vehicles. Instead vehicles and tanks could be more independent with tank factory only requiring Logistic company and its upgrade.
And Supply yard freed from everything so that players can choose to either unlock units first or lowering the upkeep cost of those he has (even if its only rifle squads). Kind of early game focused to win battles fast (thus go for unit unlocks) or focused for the long game (supply yard as early as possible to gain ressource advantage for mid to late game.


And WH buildings just based on HQ upgrades, but second building (war barracks) wouldnt be required to build the third building (which btw should not be a "Tank factory light" and instead get its old name back (assault weaponary) with Stugs, rocket arty, stubby tank IV´s and Pumas in it.


Lots of stuff to boost flexibility and to offer different ways to begin a game.

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Black Panther
Posts: 15
Joined: 04 May 2019, 14:54

Re: A possible re-work of British Tiering

Postby Black Panther » 07 May 2019, 10:44

Cromwel should be bought without a captain, however flanking speed should require a bought captain to use


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