Wehrmacht Tech system, Tigers and Panzer IV`s
Posted: 01 Mar 2019, 13:43
I kept thinking about the Tigers being made cheaper to "make them earlier avaialble" which is in my opinion afterall BS since a 100 MP cost difference makes the Tiger comming roughly 20 seconds earlier to the battlefield assuming a 300 MP income per min.
I am playing mostly 3 vs 3 or 4 vs 4 games or playing on bigger maps (3 vs 3 on 4 vs 4 maps etc) and my experience tells me that units that cost as much as a Panther is always present after 20-30 mins of playing with no sides having got the upper hand as long as two players have the capabilties to build them.
So right now, since Tiger cost change makes them more or less acting as a "reward" unit to Panthers where you trade capabilties just that they arent replacing each other. I am afraid to see not just many panthers, but also a mix of Tigers/Panthers and perhaps even a TD spam (eg hetzer) from TH doc. So the tank forces reaches from HP intense to armor intense to sneaky intense capabilties.
Bottom line: I kept thinking how to solve the issue with the Tigers becoming perhaps too cheap and how to make them earlier available without simply changing cost.
So Whats the actual Problem with Tigers coming too late to be effective:
1. CP cost. Dropping build cost by 100 MP doesnt change much about the late availablity. We see them 20 seconds earlier now, congrats. But gathering 2 CP in the early stages with perhaps standoff situation can take minutes. Thus i am (still) saying that Tiger should cost max 3 CP in total.
2. Tec system of WH. The WH is the most unflexible Tec system among all factions, closely followed by US. Most verstaile is PE. You have to get all tecs and buildings first. WH is always Building->Upgrade->Building->Upgrade-> Building->Upgrade->Building. And each upgrade takes longer as to get 100 MP. So the biggest delay for tigers is not its build cost, but the sheer tec cost and time and build time of buildings.
Solving the Problem: Re-think the WH Tec- und Unlock Sytsem.
I have made experiments with that two years ago already with multiple buildings buildable at each tec step while these unlocked just additional units and stuff.
I now also got an idea for Tank IV´s. A Unique one.
Changes on tec system:
1. "Escalate to Skirmish Phase": Allows to build the "Krieg Barracks" and "Panzer Factory". There you can at first build only Stubby Tank IV´s (E and f1 type)
2. "Escalate to assault Phase": Allows the production of Stugs and Tank IV F2. Note: BK and Terror would start of with Tank IV F2 as long barreld Tank IV. It also enables the Heavy Tank Factory for 200 MP build cost. There you can build the Tiger early version for 925 or 950 MP and 170 fuel.
(This stage should also be required to purchase STG´s)
2. "Escalate to Endsieg Phase": Replaces all Tank IV F2 models with H and J (BK doc can get both, Terror choose in reward menu). All F2 on the field remain F2, just the production changes.
This Phase also unlocks the Tiger Late version to the Heavy Tank factory for the same cost as normal Tiger.
It also unlocks a Heavy Panzer Factory Unlock that costs 100 or 200 MP and 75 fuel which enables the production of Panthers, KT´s etc.
All Volksgrenadiers have Panzerfaust at default and Schrecks can be given to regular combat units (grens, storms etc).
Changes on the unlock System:
Tigers and Panthers seperated. Panzer IV as central unlock for 1 CP only (bc you will get only the F2 at first). To its left is a direct unlock to Panther which costs further 3 or 4 CP. On the other side is the Tiger for 2 more CP followed by KT for 3 or 4 more CP.
This combined means that the Tiger can be unlocked and build even before you can get the tank IV H and J version. In Total the player would spare 275 MP and 100 fuel (!!) in total and a lot of time in upgrade time before he can actually build his first Tiger. And since time is spared he doesnt have to build as many "gap filler" units untill the Tiger arrives. So even if the tiger gets back to 900 MP and more, he spares tons of time and fuel but also MP
That should make the Tiger a real mid game tank and a lot more effective than a simple 100 Mp cost drop change which doesnt really makes the tank comming sooner and only changes its late game cost/efficiency ratio.
I am playing mostly 3 vs 3 or 4 vs 4 games or playing on bigger maps (3 vs 3 on 4 vs 4 maps etc) and my experience tells me that units that cost as much as a Panther is always present after 20-30 mins of playing with no sides having got the upper hand as long as two players have the capabilties to build them.
So right now, since Tiger cost change makes them more or less acting as a "reward" unit to Panthers where you trade capabilties just that they arent replacing each other. I am afraid to see not just many panthers, but also a mix of Tigers/Panthers and perhaps even a TD spam (eg hetzer) from TH doc. So the tank forces reaches from HP intense to armor intense to sneaky intense capabilties.
Bottom line: I kept thinking how to solve the issue with the Tigers becoming perhaps too cheap and how to make them earlier available without simply changing cost.
So Whats the actual Problem with Tigers coming too late to be effective:
1. CP cost. Dropping build cost by 100 MP doesnt change much about the late availablity. We see them 20 seconds earlier now, congrats. But gathering 2 CP in the early stages with perhaps standoff situation can take minutes. Thus i am (still) saying that Tiger should cost max 3 CP in total.
2. Tec system of WH. The WH is the most unflexible Tec system among all factions, closely followed by US. Most verstaile is PE. You have to get all tecs and buildings first. WH is always Building->Upgrade->Building->Upgrade-> Building->Upgrade->Building. And each upgrade takes longer as to get 100 MP. So the biggest delay for tigers is not its build cost, but the sheer tec cost and time and build time of buildings.
Solving the Problem: Re-think the WH Tec- und Unlock Sytsem.
I have made experiments with that two years ago already with multiple buildings buildable at each tec step while these unlocked just additional units and stuff.
I now also got an idea for Tank IV´s. A Unique one.
Changes on tec system:
1. "Escalate to Skirmish Phase": Allows to build the "Krieg Barracks" and "Panzer Factory". There you can at first build only Stubby Tank IV´s (E and f1 type)
2. "Escalate to assault Phase": Allows the production of Stugs and Tank IV F2. Note: BK and Terror would start of with Tank IV F2 as long barreld Tank IV. It also enables the Heavy Tank Factory for 200 MP build cost. There you can build the Tiger early version for 925 or 950 MP and 170 fuel.
(This stage should also be required to purchase STG´s)
2. "Escalate to Endsieg Phase": Replaces all Tank IV F2 models with H and J (BK doc can get both, Terror choose in reward menu). All F2 on the field remain F2, just the production changes.
This Phase also unlocks the Tiger Late version to the Heavy Tank factory for the same cost as normal Tiger.
It also unlocks a Heavy Panzer Factory Unlock that costs 100 or 200 MP and 75 fuel which enables the production of Panthers, KT´s etc.
All Volksgrenadiers have Panzerfaust at default and Schrecks can be given to regular combat units (grens, storms etc).
Changes on the unlock System:
Tigers and Panthers seperated. Panzer IV as central unlock for 1 CP only (bc you will get only the F2 at first). To its left is a direct unlock to Panther which costs further 3 or 4 CP. On the other side is the Tiger for 2 more CP followed by KT for 3 or 4 more CP.
This combined means that the Tiger can be unlocked and build even before you can get the tank IV H and J version. In Total the player would spare 275 MP and 100 fuel (!!) in total and a lot of time in upgrade time before he can actually build his first Tiger. And since time is spared he doesnt have to build as many "gap filler" units untill the Tiger arrives. So even if the tiger gets back to 900 MP and more, he spares tons of time and fuel but also MP
That should make the Tiger a real mid game tank and a lot more effective than a simple 100 Mp cost drop change which doesnt really makes the tank comming sooner and only changes its late game cost/efficiency ratio.