I just had a game at battle of halbe with crim (RAF), Terence (AB) and me armor
Enemie was divssViking (Luft), Butterkeks (def), cybercombie ( BK doc)
It was one of the craziest games i´ve ever had by far. So many units and kills..... But the greatest issues:
1. RAF is crap: Since grens got cheaper with stgs the RAF got very hard times. Really very hard.
2. Tank balance: I got greately outnumbered by tigers before i could upgrade supply yard. I did upgrade fuel right at the beginning and i had up to 300 fuel when i started fuel production. The sandbags and other upgrades did eat all my fuel. When i had two hellcats, 2 e8 and one or two shermans my income dropped to 5 and fuel was at arround 50. I still had to upgrade the final two supply yard upgrades. Maybe you think why i havent upgraded them before? simply because we encountered like 6 gren squads and 4 WE at squads all the time as well as Perma spam of Wirbelwind and Ostwinds. Hell idk how much my shermans killed but fact is that i did need those tanks but thus i was unable to upgrade the supply yard. I killed several vehicles, AA Tanks and tigers and also elephant, tiger ace etc. But there came just sooo many.
3. def doc + Grens= OP.... 3 tanks of me with at least 3 cal 50 couldnt kill a single men. Later in game they ran through commando fire, two ranger with vet 3 and lmg, 2 rifle squads, cal. 30 emplcament, sas and HE sherman vet 3 and they got not suppressed and overrunning HMG emplacment, SAS, rangers and heavly damaged the HE sherman. Fuck that shit... srsly....
4. Fuck WE AT squads. They ran through heavy gunfire, HMG´s, rifles etc untill they find something. In the final assault before the game crashed they ran accross 30 m HMG fire area and other weapons untill reaching 17 pounder, killing it and losing just 1 men due to sniper... not even a HE shot from vet 3 shermans could harm them. This is even worse than VCOH...... even there the axis inf dies faster by HMGs and lmgs.
Do somethign with commandos! They are so pointless.... weaker and more expensive than grens
Do something with US fuel, esspecially armor doc
Fix supply yard and the upgrade insanity. You can drop the the cost of each upgrade easily by the half! 100/25 buidl, 100/25 first upgrade, 150/30 second, 100/20 third, and maybe a fourth and should only require the first Building and then players should feel free what to do and when.The income upgrade bonuses for armor doc must also be more effective.
Also!: Hellcat and e8 with vet and commander vet did tackle a Tiger and all shots bounced! But a stolen 50 mm AT gun Always penetrated Tiger!! One Tiger got oneshoted by the 50 mm where hellcats etc failed to do anything! Either US 76 guns are mega crap or 50 mm super OP shit.
American guns are actually holly ineffective unless using hVAP ammo. Shitty lucky guns that are like a lottery. Small chance to pen everything but always unreliable. I never know what my shermans will do. And if armor doc is played by quantity its hard to get enough ammo. Battle of halbe has two medium ammo and a few small and it was just enough to for HE sherman and AP rounds for a few hellcats. but most shermans could not be upgraded with ammo. Crazy that even axis doc upgrades special AP rounds via tect tree..... So on most maps the 76 guns are just crap and i rather use the axis 50 mm which always pens tigers.
It was an intensive fight and sadly it crashed. but to point out the current immortal schreck rushes are absolutely bullshit.... And the armor doc must be able to field tanks before being overruned by enemie tanks but also be able to upgrade supply yard to be prepared for late game.
I was just about to get SP and one sherman as final hope to be not overruned by Elephant and Tigers. The fuel i´ve got after my tanks got destroyed in heavy fights got spend into supply yard (and i was not done with supply yard yet). With quantity its just immpossible to play and even pointless. Lacking fuel and as the 76 needs HVAP just to kill a silly stug or Tank IV the ammo is also very often an issue. Untill this doc has some spam capabilties after all the supply yard shit the enemie has already Tigers and Panthers everywhere. In my last game vs SVT clan the SP was also the only unit that helped them against our continues Tiger, Panther G and KT spam.
too bad that replay is lost due to crash. This had been the best example showing basically all the issues. Maybe butter and cyber and crim can "subscribe" this one.
ISSUES
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Warhawks97
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- Location: Germany
ISSUES
Last edited by Warhawks97 on 29 Jun 2015, 13:46, edited 1 time in total.
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Butterkeks
- Posts: 492
- Joined: 23 Dec 2014, 17:42
- Location: Germany
Re: ISSUES
Well to be honest I can fully subscribe all of his points except for one.
(My Grens had a really hard time fighting Lee Enfield Commandos.)
But as I played def doc and was more concerned with the RAF player I can not say too much about the tank fight. But I was absolutely suprised about WM AT squad. I knew they were OP. But when I ran across a MG emplacement and some inf, killed a 17pdr and retreated with one man lost...
Really, this was ridicoulus.
Really sad that the game crashed, but I totally agree with you. Except for ammo which was a bit short, I had never ress problems and could spam those Grens and AT squads.
Armor doc really needs more fuel. Having tanks that are worse than the germans AND have a higher supply? WTF? As a german I can kill every tank with a double AT squad for 720 MP. Try this as allies.
(I could actually kill at least two, using tradebreaker ability, but I don't used in in this game because this ability is just way too OP)
(My Grens had a really hard time fighting Lee Enfield Commandos.)
But as I played def doc and was more concerned with the RAF player I can not say too much about the tank fight. But I was absolutely suprised about WM AT squad. I knew they were OP. But when I ran across a MG emplacement and some inf, killed a 17pdr and retreated with one man lost...
Really, this was ridicoulus.
Really sad that the game crashed, but I totally agree with you. Except for ammo which was a bit short, I had never ress problems and could spam those Grens and AT squads.
Armor doc really needs more fuel. Having tanks that are worse than the germans AND have a higher supply? WTF? As a german I can kill every tank with a double AT squad for 720 MP. Try this as allies.
(I could actually kill at least two, using tradebreaker ability, but I don't used in in this game because this ability is just way too OP)
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Cyberzombie
- Posts: 76
- Joined: 25 Nov 2014, 01:45
- Location: Germany
Re: ISSUES
Really sad that the game crashed.
You´re totally right that it would have showed all the issues yu named perfectly.
And with all your points your absolutely right!
1. RAF get stronger in late game but till then grens are vetted so it doesn´t matter and in early game grens are way stronger than RAF units
2. Fun fact: they had more fuel points than we had and they even upgraded some what we didn´t. But i still was able to build one tank IV after the other combined with always 2 ostwinds on the field and later Tigers and still Oswtinds.
The only tanks i saw from warhawks was jumbo, 2 hellcats and some shermans. But all of them had to stay more or less defensively (problem WE At squad!)
I´m pretty sure my fuel income was higher with 2 tiger + 2 ostwinds than warhawks with his "upgrades" and some tanks...
Fx this!
Btw my tiger with tank commmander was able to detect a hidden hellcat. Why is that possible? SHould definetively get removed!
3/4. WE AT squads have too much hp and combined with def doc bonus they are even more immortal, so pls dix thiss in the next patch too.
You´re totally right that it would have showed all the issues yu named perfectly.
And with all your points your absolutely right!
1. RAF get stronger in late game but till then grens are vetted so it doesn´t matter and in early game grens are way stronger than RAF units
2. Fun fact: they had more fuel points than we had and they even upgraded some what we didn´t. But i still was able to build one tank IV after the other combined with always 2 ostwinds on the field and later Tigers and still Oswtinds.
The only tanks i saw from warhawks was jumbo, 2 hellcats and some shermans. But all of them had to stay more or less defensively (problem WE At squad!)
I´m pretty sure my fuel income was higher with 2 tiger + 2 ostwinds than warhawks with his "upgrades" and some tanks...
Fx this!
Btw my tiger with tank commmander was able to detect a hidden hellcat. Why is that possible? SHould definetively get removed!
3/4. WE AT squads have too much hp and combined with def doc bonus they are even more immortal, so pls dix thiss in the next patch too.
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Krieger Blitzer
- Posts: 5037
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Re: ISSUES
As always Warhawks, u complain after playing as Allies and specifically when as US Armor doctrine.. even if u were the winner actually! ^^ I can't agree all of ur points but as I have said it once before on the topic which u wrote titled as "stupid game"; I agree to only greatly decrease the cost of all Supply Yard upgrades, but if the fuel upkeep issues are fixed as u want in order to suit a better situation for the Armor doctrine to become more reliable of spamming instantly like the Blitz doctrine then I believe the Jumbo tank must not stay as strong as it is in a result. Which means more weapon values to be played on while that is something not suggested anymore as said...
And btw; as u know the Armor doctrine is already capable of deploying more tanks as probably regarded a double of what the Blitz doctrine is actually able to produce as that according to all the screenshots posted and replays u can obviously see what I mean considering the production stats.
But I am also aware that the Armor doctrine is able to spam more only at a long term while the Blitz doctrine is capable of spamming instantly and not at a long term like the Armor doctrine. And that in my opinion very well fulfills the 'Blitz' concept... If the Armor doctrine somehow anytime becomes able to spam both instantly and at long terms then this will be just unstoppable and the Blitz doctrine will be easily doomed!! The Armor doctrine is already a perfect counter to both the Blitz and Terror docs.
For me I find no problems dealing out the early Blitz doctrine instant spam through several 1v1s however that the WH AT squads as I mentioned before are not brutal and they quickly die at least as I can see using the suppression combined with HE shells of Shermans... Also just the weakness of Allies HMGs is exactly the main reason of what makes u feel that those Axis AT squads are immortal while they are actually not.
The US 76 mm guns are sometimes acting so brutal but others so bullshit as I said but this is something I can deal with as well...
@Cyber; What u mean with that ur Tiger was actually able to detect the hidden Hellcat?! U mean just spotted the Hellcat out to be visible only on the map or also to be visible on the real battle ground using the Tiger??!! If just on the map then u have to know that this is because of the tank awareness. And it's legit btw...
And btw; as u know the Armor doctrine is already capable of deploying more tanks as probably regarded a double of what the Blitz doctrine is actually able to produce as that according to all the screenshots posted and replays u can obviously see what I mean considering the production stats.
But I am also aware that the Armor doctrine is able to spam more only at a long term while the Blitz doctrine is capable of spamming instantly and not at a long term like the Armor doctrine. And that in my opinion very well fulfills the 'Blitz' concept... If the Armor doctrine somehow anytime becomes able to spam both instantly and at long terms then this will be just unstoppable and the Blitz doctrine will be easily doomed!! The Armor doctrine is already a perfect counter to both the Blitz and Terror docs.
For me I find no problems dealing out the early Blitz doctrine instant spam through several 1v1s however that the WH AT squads as I mentioned before are not brutal and they quickly die at least as I can see using the suppression combined with HE shells of Shermans... Also just the weakness of Allies HMGs is exactly the main reason of what makes u feel that those Axis AT squads are immortal while they are actually not.
The US 76 mm guns are sometimes acting so brutal but others so bullshit as I said but this is something I can deal with as well...
@Cyber; What u mean with that ur Tiger was actually able to detect the hidden Hellcat?! U mean just spotted the Hellcat out to be visible only on the map or also to be visible on the real battle ground using the Tiger??!! If just on the map then u have to know that this is because of the tank awareness. And it's legit btw...
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Warhawks97
- Posts: 5395
- Joined: 23 Nov 2014, 21:45
- Location: Germany
Re: ISSUES
On long term US cant deploy more. There are sometimes kind of "standby phases" during games which may go thorughout 20-30 mins where booth sides hold back their units. Inf and AB doc are able to build up a larger infantry army as their opponents during that time but for tanks its not possible. The axis tanks may cost more to build but during those kind of standby and skirmish phase it hurts much more to have 5 weak and cheap tanks with mega upkeep as to have two or three expensive but powerfull tanks with low upkeep which are undestructabale to to normal anti tank weapons which upkeep is lower as those of the 5 weak enemie tanks. And in addition to that the upkeep can be bypassed by res trade.
And wtf... how does long term "spam" helps (which btw doesnt exist because after 4 build tanks which cost up to 180-200 fuel the income dropped to 5 or 7 per minute like in my last game). Means armor doc can field many cheap tanks which have to be wasted quickly in order not to hurt the income too much which wouldnt allow supply yard upgrades and tier up´s. Its a doc just too feed the german cats. They cant do insta spam like bk doc and long term spam is only possible by wasting the first tanks asap. But creating and forming up armored forces large enough to overwhelm the enemie is not possible and when it comes to this standby phases axis will create larger armored forces simply due to res trade and low upkeep (and by having not so silly expensive res eating BS upgrades). I had such situations.
The only thing armor doc does is to wait in ambsuhes with hellcats and hopping that the enemie wastes all in their attacks. Unless jumbos in mid and SP in late game are on the field there is no real attack by armor doc. It becomes very very problematic when the enemie team decides to use all their Panthers, Tigers and Tank IVs supported by schrecks as defensive weapons and when they start to rely their attacks on super range weapons. Means when Tigers and Panthers are just defending all time and only stuhs and 88´s are being used to attack from distance pushing enemie back step by step. If this happens then only CW arty doc can help but on low or average ammo maps the ammo wont be enough or jst hardly. Attacking axis armor with US armor is suicide unless SP is on the field in late game supported by HE shermans but with numbers (max 4 tanks) its just not possible unless you have mega luck with this 5% thing.
and the game crashed but it looked like a loss. I was getting SP with one or two shermans but enemies had too many immortal schrecks + tigers and elephant and sooner or later my SP would have been killed by elephant, Henschels, schrecks or grille. One tread breaker shot and it would be game over.
If i can also add and as i play BK and armor doc quite often i think the new buffed tiger is a way too cheap. I can actually build one after the other and they can be really bad ass. Thanks to HP buff they survive usually three 90 mm hits from persh or jacks or up to 5 or 6 penetration hits of 76 mm guns. Hendeld AT cant do much and damage is minor. I see bunches of AB units shooting half dozens rl and bazookas and dealing just very low damage. In the game at battle of halbe last evening i did attack a Tiger from two sides with Jumbo+ commander and vet+ HVAP and with hellcat with commander+vet+hvap. It was a perfect maneuver like from a manual and the second hit immobiilzed the Tiger. I had to penetrate the Tiger 5 Times from booth sides before it got destroyed and my jumbo got critically damaged. Funny..... if a unveted Tiger without commander gets oneshoted by an veted e8 with vet commander and HVAP from mid range then huge complains and youtube vids popping up. But if the same can stand 6 shots from close range from 76 mm guns shooting from two sides or when the same one (no vet etc) survives three rear hits from vet 3 pershing or three hits from SP or a Tank IV that survives three 17 pounder hits then its all correct and buisness as usual. Maybe i should also do screeshots and vids where tigers just dont want to explode.
But since the 5 % oneshot chance can also happen to SP´s and jumbos and churchills i think we cant buff/reduce cost of tigers whenever this is happening. In their normal performence the Tigers do survive many penetration hits and most shells do bounce anyway. Also 17 pounders and 90 mm do bounce not seldomly as well. Hendheld AT´s are usually pointless unless they hit the rear of a low HP Tiger. On vet 1 Tigers get even a superior flexibility to shermans with flankspeed and on vet 2 they become really badass with insta pinning and slowing down enemie inf and Tanks which allows the tiger to keep all threats on distance and preventing to be flanked while knocking out tanks from great range. The BK Tiger with top turret shreds inf and tanks away easily and thus getting quickly vet ups. Tigers and Jagpanthers are currently really too cheap for the massive destruction they deal to their enemies in most situations.
And wtf... how does long term "spam" helps (which btw doesnt exist because after 4 build tanks which cost up to 180-200 fuel the income dropped to 5 or 7 per minute like in my last game). Means armor doc can field many cheap tanks which have to be wasted quickly in order not to hurt the income too much which wouldnt allow supply yard upgrades and tier up´s. Its a doc just too feed the german cats. They cant do insta spam like bk doc and long term spam is only possible by wasting the first tanks asap. But creating and forming up armored forces large enough to overwhelm the enemie is not possible and when it comes to this standby phases axis will create larger armored forces simply due to res trade and low upkeep (and by having not so silly expensive res eating BS upgrades). I had such situations.
The only thing armor doc does is to wait in ambsuhes with hellcats and hopping that the enemie wastes all in their attacks. Unless jumbos in mid and SP in late game are on the field there is no real attack by armor doc. It becomes very very problematic when the enemie team decides to use all their Panthers, Tigers and Tank IVs supported by schrecks as defensive weapons and when they start to rely their attacks on super range weapons. Means when Tigers and Panthers are just defending all time and only stuhs and 88´s are being used to attack from distance pushing enemie back step by step. If this happens then only CW arty doc can help but on low or average ammo maps the ammo wont be enough or jst hardly. Attacking axis armor with US armor is suicide unless SP is on the field in late game supported by HE shermans but with numbers (max 4 tanks) its just not possible unless you have mega luck with this 5% thing.
and the game crashed but it looked like a loss. I was getting SP with one or two shermans but enemies had too many immortal schrecks + tigers and elephant and sooner or later my SP would have been killed by elephant, Henschels, schrecks or grille. One tread breaker shot and it would be game over.
If i can also add and as i play BK and armor doc quite often i think the new buffed tiger is a way too cheap. I can actually build one after the other and they can be really bad ass. Thanks to HP buff they survive usually three 90 mm hits from persh or jacks or up to 5 or 6 penetration hits of 76 mm guns. Hendeld AT cant do much and damage is minor. I see bunches of AB units shooting half dozens rl and bazookas and dealing just very low damage. In the game at battle of halbe last evening i did attack a Tiger from two sides with Jumbo+ commander and vet+ HVAP and with hellcat with commander+vet+hvap. It was a perfect maneuver like from a manual and the second hit immobiilzed the Tiger. I had to penetrate the Tiger 5 Times from booth sides before it got destroyed and my jumbo got critically damaged. Funny..... if a unveted Tiger without commander gets oneshoted by an veted e8 with vet commander and HVAP from mid range then huge complains and youtube vids popping up. But if the same can stand 6 shots from close range from 76 mm guns shooting from two sides or when the same one (no vet etc) survives three rear hits from vet 3 pershing or three hits from SP or a Tank IV that survives three 17 pounder hits then its all correct and buisness as usual. Maybe i should also do screeshots and vids where tigers just dont want to explode.
But since the 5 % oneshot chance can also happen to SP´s and jumbos and churchills i think we cant buff/reduce cost of tigers whenever this is happening. In their normal performence the Tigers do survive many penetration hits and most shells do bounce anyway. Also 17 pounders and 90 mm do bounce not seldomly as well. Hendheld AT´s are usually pointless unless they hit the rear of a low HP Tiger. On vet 1 Tigers get even a superior flexibility to shermans with flankspeed and on vet 2 they become really badass with insta pinning and slowing down enemie inf and Tanks which allows the tiger to keep all threats on distance and preventing to be flanked while knocking out tanks from great range. The BK Tiger with top turret shreds inf and tanks away easily and thus getting quickly vet ups. Tigers and Jagpanthers are currently really too cheap for the massive destruction they deal to their enemies in most situations.
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Warhawks97
- Posts: 5395
- Joined: 23 Nov 2014, 21:45
- Location: Germany
Re: ISSUES
Tiger1996 wrote:For me I find no problems dealing out the early Blitz doctrine instant spam through several 1v1s however that the WH AT squads as I mentioned before are not brutal and they quickly die at least as I can see using the suppression combined with HE shells of Shermans... Also just the weakness of Allies HMGs is exactly the main reason of what makes u feel that those Axis AT squads are immortal while they are actually not.
Yeah, they are not a problem.... They just ran through cal 30 MG emplacment´s entire fire angel, Ranger vet 3 and lmg, passed two rifle squads with BARs, passed another ranger squad, an HE sherman vet 3, Commandos.... and lost just one men due to a sniper..... They are really not a problem..... srsly, are you kidding me? or is it just sarcasm!?
Tiger1996 wrote:@Cyber; What u mean with that ur Tiger was actually able to detect the hidden Hellcat?! U mean just spotted the Hellcat out to be visible only on the map or also to be visible on the real battle ground using the Tiger??!! If just on the map then u have to know that this is because of the tank awareness. And it's legit btw...
Ah, yeah.... German super genetic Tankers can smell the ambushes.... How did Wittman die? In a Firefly Ambush? he must have had a cold that he couldnt smell this ambush!
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Krieger Blitzer
- Posts: 5037
- Joined: 06 Dec 2014, 15:53
- Location: I'm from Egypt, living in Qatar.
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Re: ISSUES
Tigers had never been tough or unbeatable in this mod!!! U r so much exaggerating really... The Tiger dies too fast and just only 2 or more likely 3 penetrated shots by the US 76mm AT gun are enough to kill the Tiger tank somehow!!! And so I don't know what are u talking about of surviving 6 penetrated 76mm gun shots, alright.. try to upload those scenes if u have any so we can see them. The Tiger tank is ONLY good if the user of it had some luck when enemy guns usually miss or less often bounce off as supposed combined with good managing or handling skills and experience. Nevertheless Tigers.. even JPs could be somehow ridiculously killed 1 on 1 or I mean face to face when fighting against the Jumbo btw!!!
Now let me tell u why most people take it so serious when a Tiger is killed by a single shot while are not confused or anyhow bothered when they see the Tiger bouncing off several 76mm or few 90mm gun shells, simply because historically it's well known and commonly not a surprise for the German tanks to do so but really a surprise and an unacceptable shock anyways for all the players when to see a Jumbo that was actually able to bounce off several Pak43 shells as that Allies tanks never been invincible like that way.
I am sad to say that I have dozens of game replays where I was able to knock out uncountable numbers of Tigers belonging to good players using just Jumbos with few 76mm AT guns in the help of my mate's inf doctrine arty... But no, I am afraid to upload this so those who see it may get pissed of the whole mod totally! U know why?! Because Tigers are so much loved by many and Axis biggest tanks actually as a common correct believe can't die this way so easily.. I mean they spammed many Tigers but all died like flies as that the opponent team even strongly believed that Tigers are just made papers in this mod, that's why I quickly answered them by sharing to them the links of my games with Tigers which are uploaded here on the forums not to let them think anymore about that the German tanks are just bullshit in this mod. I think I hopefully succeeded and those players were convinced and seen playing the mod again days after as they thankfully to my videos and my game replays didn't quit playing it
I am not like u talking without evidences.. go look back to the games which I uploaded or even the ones u uploaded ur own and count the tank numbers one by one or just check the screen shots and see the production stats, then come and tell me whom was the one who was actually capable of deploying more tanks than the other! Was it the Blitz doc player or the Armor doc player??!! Answer is without any doubts; the Armor doc player of course always had more tanks but as I said were all at long term period and not as an instant spam.
But well I agreed already to greatly reduce the cost of all Supply Yard upgrades while to also greatly decrease the cost of Comets and Jacksons. I will not mind that! But anything that is more than this would be so much unfair in my opinion... And I am also an armor doctrine player beside a Blitz doctrine player btw.. and I tell u I never deployed more than 2 Tigers, I never spam Tigers or probably I did but that when I was new to this mod, recently I use only a Tiger or 2 combined with Hs and few Panthers. On the other hand as when I play with the Armor doctrine I use a Jumbo with 2 cheap Shermans loaded with HE rounds and then just say 'bye bye' to those immortal WH AT squads after...
The Tiger tank was the fastest heavy tank ever made during the ww2. It's not too slow and btw there are a lot of archive videos which very well represent how the Tiger had a good speed although it's a heavy tank!
Tank awareness never detects any hiding weapon on the battle ground, but ONLY it spots hidden 'tanks' to be visible on the map only when in view range. It doesn't spot hiding AT guns or inf cause they are smaller! So that's not problematic and again I confirm that Tiger tank functions are perfectly made and if there are any changes that should happen to it then those changes must be about making it even stronger and not weaker!!!! But I suggest no any other changes considering this tank. However that I would suggest on the other hand to fix the Jumbo armor functions to a weaker stage cause it's formidable this way while the Pershing tank functions to a better or a stronger armor stage but to also to fix several fuel costs regarding some Allies tanks and their upgrades as mentioned above.... And that's just all of it!
Fixing the US tanks fuel upkeep without paying any attention of the Jackson or the Comet high cost than as supposed or the Pershing weak armor than as supposed too and the OP Jumbo armor than as supposed as well.. will be just worthless and pointless creating new balancing issues. That's what I am saying Warhawks!!!
Now let me tell u why most people take it so serious when a Tiger is killed by a single shot while are not confused or anyhow bothered when they see the Tiger bouncing off several 76mm or few 90mm gun shells, simply because historically it's well known and commonly not a surprise for the German tanks to do so but really a surprise and an unacceptable shock anyways for all the players when to see a Jumbo that was actually able to bounce off several Pak43 shells as that Allies tanks never been invincible like that way.
I am sad to say that I have dozens of game replays where I was able to knock out uncountable numbers of Tigers belonging to good players using just Jumbos with few 76mm AT guns in the help of my mate's inf doctrine arty... But no, I am afraid to upload this so those who see it may get pissed of the whole mod totally! U know why?! Because Tigers are so much loved by many and Axis biggest tanks actually as a common correct believe can't die this way so easily.. I mean they spammed many Tigers but all died like flies as that the opponent team even strongly believed that Tigers are just made papers in this mod, that's why I quickly answered them by sharing to them the links of my games with Tigers which are uploaded here on the forums not to let them think anymore about that the German tanks are just bullshit in this mod. I think I hopefully succeeded and those players were convinced and seen playing the mod again days after as they thankfully to my videos and my game replays didn't quit playing it
I am not like u talking without evidences.. go look back to the games which I uploaded or even the ones u uploaded ur own and count the tank numbers one by one or just check the screen shots and see the production stats, then come and tell me whom was the one who was actually capable of deploying more tanks than the other! Was it the Blitz doc player or the Armor doc player??!! Answer is without any doubts; the Armor doc player of course always had more tanks but as I said were all at long term period and not as an instant spam.
But well I agreed already to greatly reduce the cost of all Supply Yard upgrades while to also greatly decrease the cost of Comets and Jacksons. I will not mind that! But anything that is more than this would be so much unfair in my opinion... And I am also an armor doctrine player beside a Blitz doctrine player btw.. and I tell u I never deployed more than 2 Tigers, I never spam Tigers or probably I did but that when I was new to this mod, recently I use only a Tiger or 2 combined with Hs and few Panthers. On the other hand as when I play with the Armor doctrine I use a Jumbo with 2 cheap Shermans loaded with HE rounds and then just say 'bye bye' to those immortal WH AT squads after...
The Tiger tank was the fastest heavy tank ever made during the ww2. It's not too slow and btw there are a lot of archive videos which very well represent how the Tiger had a good speed although it's a heavy tank!
Tank awareness never detects any hiding weapon on the battle ground, but ONLY it spots hidden 'tanks' to be visible on the map only when in view range. It doesn't spot hiding AT guns or inf cause they are smaller! So that's not problematic and again I confirm that Tiger tank functions are perfectly made and if there are any changes that should happen to it then those changes must be about making it even stronger and not weaker!!!! But I suggest no any other changes considering this tank. However that I would suggest on the other hand to fix the Jumbo armor functions to a weaker stage cause it's formidable this way while the Pershing tank functions to a better or a stronger armor stage but to also to fix several fuel costs regarding some Allies tanks and their upgrades as mentioned above.... And that's just all of it!
Fixing the US tanks fuel upkeep without paying any attention of the Jackson or the Comet high cost than as supposed or the Pershing weak armor than as supposed too and the OP Jumbo armor than as supposed as well.. will be just worthless and pointless creating new balancing issues. That's what I am saying Warhawks!!!
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Warhawks97
- Posts: 5395
- Joined: 23 Nov 2014, 21:45
- Location: Germany
Re: ISSUES
Tiger1996 wrote:I never spam Tigers or probably I did but that when I was new to this mod, recently I use only a Tiger or 2 combined with Hs and few Panthers. On the other hand as when I play with the Armor doctrine I use a Jumbo with 2 cheap Shermans loaded with HE rounds and then just say 'bye bye' to those immortal WH AT squads after...
This says all....
"Only two tigers and a few panthers" (and probably when the US player is still busy with his fucking supply yard and sandbags)..... you know what you are writing here?.. i would be glad to have so many shermans. 3x e8 makes 150 fuel to build, income drops down by about 15 and i have still nothing against inf as the top MG gunner are crap... One supply yard upgrade and fuel and income is gone... Mate, if you want to beat superior enemie tanks with quantity then you need an good ammount of quantity tanks at the same moment... sending one or two shermans after the other and wasted against a tiger is crazy bullshit. The total number at the end of the game might be more (which btw isnt when watching vehicle stats at the end of the game).... how do you belive to beat a number of powerfull tanks with cheap tank spam over a long time? Its just not possible. How to beat "just a few Panthers and two Tigers" with just shermans..... also consider that the micro gameplay has a a limit as well. I wrote all the things in steam if you havent forgot. So without using SP and Jumbo i would say that at least 7 e8 with commanders are neccessary + maybe two hellcats to beat "only those few Panthers and Tigers". Maybe you are lucky and the enemie wastes some of his "only few Panthers" in hellcat ambushes. But attacking them is simply not possible. And the Teammates will have schrecks for sure.
I remember a game long time ago at goodwood. 4 sandbaged and partly veted e8 vs Panther. The first shot of panther destroyed the engine of an e8 so it was still 3 vs 1. The other three e8 got oneshoted by this Panther while those three succeeded just once to pen the Panther. If the Panther drives smart backwards and stopping with each shot he is able to keep out of range of some of the attacking shermans. controlling more then 4 Tanks during an offense requires huge micro. Keeping all in range, stop for each shot and that for each tank, activate HVAP for the tank in best situation etc. And then if the attack is still not successfull the Tiger or Panther is vet 2 or 3.... How many shermans are needed then? 12?
Also i had 2 HE shermans and 2 hellcats+ mgs and i succeeded only ONCE to beat two AT squads before they could shoot but i just got them in a lucky moment when they stopped. Hell an US at squad right dies by a single Axis top MG gunner before they can shoot somtimes. Havent you asked yourself why i always need HE shermans till late game just to kill the grens and AT squads while axis just need their top MG gunners?
well too bad that i dont do youtube vids but i try to remember for screenshots. Just in the game against sukin, terence and zhivago i did waste my tiger stupidly sometimes by rushing too deep into enemie territory and head on attacks on SP but they survived sometimes 2 hits from SP and also a flanking hellcat did need i think 2 shots against a Tiger that was already at 75% HP. And the guy yesterday ran right through a forest that allowed be to attack from booth sides with jumbo and Hellcat and i did need at least 4 penetration hits to kill it. Just games are not saved when match crashes.... just too bad.
But as we are talk about vids. i watched all of yours and showing a great Tiger performence. Epic games with tigers that fight heroic till dead killing entire armies or turning even entire games. Could you do the same with Pershings and Jacksons? or with two or three e8? Would like to see if it is somehow possible to do similiar heroic last stands and game turns with pershings. I highly doubt.
And this spotting hidden tanks on map: This is a feature for TH doc infantry since vcoh. What sence do ambushes with allied tanks make when they are visible on map by axis tanks?
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Re: ISSUES
Fun game but sadly, i think nobody has the playback file because game crashed.
I am not a tank-based doctrines player but I generally agree with the others points.
RAF:
The old-times of "RAF IS OP !!!" are gone. RAF got nerf several times, but it still a very good doctrine currently. But, since last modifications, this doctrine is more related to late game now (like the other air-based doctrines).
In early-game, Commandos need more micromanagement and good game to survive until they get bonus and VET upgrade. In past RAF was the "all season" doctrine. But, if you want my honest opinion, I can survive with this ....
Terror Doctrine Panzergrenadier:
They got an huge buff since last patch. Phosphorus grenades, free cost weapon upgrade, Victory Point, less suppression upgrade. Well, a lot of you were happy to see KCH removed from Terror doctrine, OK ! But Pzgrens replaced them very well and maybe too easy or cheap (expecially when compared with Def/Blitz Pzgrens they are no more the same unit).
My suggestion here is to increase their cost (+50MP ???)
Wehrmacht AT Squad:
Currently this unit make me laugh, as I wrote in chat with W-97: "We need to simply "Humanize" it.
Many times in the "Glorious History of BK Mod" (lol) there was some unit absolutely OP. Well, this is its time.
I am not a tank-based doctrines player but I generally agree with the others points.
RAF:
The old-times of "RAF IS OP !!!" are gone. RAF got nerf several times, but it still a very good doctrine currently. But, since last modifications, this doctrine is more related to late game now (like the other air-based doctrines).
In early-game, Commandos need more micromanagement and good game to survive until they get bonus and VET upgrade. In past RAF was the "all season" doctrine. But, if you want my honest opinion, I can survive with this ....
Terror Doctrine Panzergrenadier:
They got an huge buff since last patch. Phosphorus grenades, free cost weapon upgrade, Victory Point, less suppression upgrade. Well, a lot of you were happy to see KCH removed from Terror doctrine, OK ! But Pzgrens replaced them very well and maybe too easy or cheap (expecially when compared with Def/Blitz Pzgrens they are no more the same unit).
My suggestion here is to increase their cost (+50MP ???)
Wehrmacht AT Squad:
Currently this unit make me laugh, as I wrote in chat with W-97: "We need to simply "Humanize" it.
Many times in the "Glorious History of BK Mod" (lol) there was some unit absolutely OP. Well, this is its time.
Company Of Heroes is the 'water gun version' of Blitzkrieg Mod" (Heinz Wilhelm Guderian, 1939)
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Krieger Blitzer
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Re: ISSUES
Well, I never had high kills with a single Allies tank like I did using the Axis Tiger tank except with the SP as that once I had 24 tank kills surely during a pvp 3vs3 game on the map Red Ball Express of Bk mod v4.81 including KTs, Tigers, JTs, Panthers, JPs and several Panzer4s also against good players!! While to also keep in mind that absolutely no AI tank is included on the record. And btw I was so much pissed off although I won as I couldn't stand watching Axis tanks dying like this way! But unfortunately anyways I never uploaded that replay because I have sadly lost it. However that I guess this is not the first time for me to mention about that... I have said it before I think 2 long times ago! But well; several other times I was actually able to turn out many games using only several Hellcats and few Jumbos with a Jackson or 2, but definitely not with a single Jumbo or an individual Allies tank of high kills (Except the SP.) as they are not even supposed to do so as I lost my tanks several times but they were also replaced several times as well and it was really worth it.. as killing all Tigers in the help of arty while also scoring highest kills/deaths vehicles ratio and causing victory!! And I already have 2 replays considering this but I believe I even don't have to upload them in order to prove that... U can just check out the games which u uploaded ur own again when u played with Sukin... For example the one on the map lafiere under the topic titled as "Insane Game/No arty docs" when u killed so many kitties!!! Or that one when the Jumbo stopped JPs of Sukin's topic titled as "Cyberzombie and Butterkeks vs Kot and Terence" I mean that u r not even in need of numbers when playing as Armor doctrine in order to beat Axis spam! And btw as u have seen me before, I usually don't use Hellcats as stationary ambushes but as rapid flanking attacks ^^
And again I agree with u about the Supply Yard upgrades, they should greatly cost less.
However that here is one of the 2 recent replays I had as Armor doctrine hunting down the Tigers and WH AT squads too although I deployed less tanks as I was saving my resources and not managing for a pointless spam although I could have done a similar spam to theirs or even a greater one!!!! U may be surprised when to see that actually this is one of the rare games where u can see Armor doctrine having less total tank numbers generally as not usual compared with other uploaded games.
Or that one when the Jumbo stopped JPs of Sukin's topic titled as "Cyberzombie and Butterkeks vs Kot and Terence" I mean that u r not even in need of numbers when playing as Armor doctrine in order to beat Axis spam! And btw as u have seen me before, I usually don't use Hellcats as stationary ambushes but as rapid flanking attacks ^^And again I agree with u about the Supply Yard upgrades, they should greatly cost less.
However that here is one of the 2 recent replays I had as Armor doctrine hunting down the Tigers and WH AT squads too although I deployed less tanks as I was saving my resources and not managing for a pointless spam although I could have done a similar spam to theirs or even a greater one!!!! U may be surprised when to see that actually this is one of the rare games where u can see Armor doctrine having less total tank numbers generally as not usual compared with other uploaded games.
- Attachments
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- PrntScr.
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- PrntScr.
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- 4p_autry.2015-02-10.00-11-41.rec
- Just copy the file to ur 'C:Users\"username"\My Documents\My Games\Company of Heroes Relaunch\playback' and then u r good to go!
Bk mod v4.85 playback file. - (3.18 MiB) Downloaded 59 times
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Warhawks97
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Re: ISSUES
Thats what i mean. Due to not being possible to outnumber the axis armored forces it makes me sick that i have to play with inferior numbers as US. First i need the jumbo to counter several axis medium tanks and later SP to stop the cat spam. It should actually be the opposite and the SP not a kind of "must be" in heeavly raging tank fights. Just as i had no other option as to wait for the SP.
And when talking about this the pointless insane TH doc with tankbuster spam looks even more hilarious and pointless.
and also in order to balance out medium tank fight i would really appreciate to rework the 76´s. They are pure lottery. For tactical decisions and for knowing which unit to build it is neccessary that certain units can do certian jobs well while being not suited for others. Its mostly the case. When i have Tank IV´s i know i pen easily all enemie medium tanks but struggeling against jumbos. Same for 50 mm paks etc etc etc. The problem with the 76 is that it is so unpredictable and nobody builds a unit which is so random in its performence. If the tanks would have a more clearly defined role where we can say what they can do well and in which situations they suck then non US armor docs would also build more tanks and thus helping also to restore the balance. Simply dropping cost as did in last patch of 76 shermans doesnt helps to make them more appealing. The unit just needs a "role" for what it is or should be made for. In case of 76 guns would mean to be reliable effective against medium tanks, struggling against Tigers and Panthers and almost entirely usless against Elephants and JT´s etc. That would help a lot but such randomly performing units are just crap.
And Tiger: Autry is the only BK map that has a huge fuel point right next to the base and so many medium fuel points. I even think that Autry provides more fuel as any other map.
Edit: I think its just stupid that it is cheaper to go for SP as to get all the stuff that allows some kind of quantity playing. For US it should be easier and cheaper to get the neccessary stuff to be able to spam shermans as to get SP´s. The cost of the supply yard upgrades, sandbags and HVSS cost together more fuel and MP as to get that single SP and much more as to get a single pershing. It should actually be more or less the opposite. The required upgrades for SP cost 95 fuel more as to get a sherman 60 more as to get e8. All supply yard upgrades which are needed to be playable as quantity faction cost approx. 800-900 mp and 240 fuel or more and still no unit fielded and the fuel issue is not solved and upkeep still higher as those of axis counterparts and supply yard build cost is also not included but which are also needed to get SP. Sandbags and smoke screen unolock also not included. So its very obvious that jumbo, pershings and SP are always the prefered way. And the SP is easily worth 3 e8 in anti tank warfare.
And when talking about this the pointless insane TH doc with tankbuster spam looks even more hilarious and pointless.
and also in order to balance out medium tank fight i would really appreciate to rework the 76´s. They are pure lottery. For tactical decisions and for knowing which unit to build it is neccessary that certain units can do certian jobs well while being not suited for others. Its mostly the case. When i have Tank IV´s i know i pen easily all enemie medium tanks but struggeling against jumbos. Same for 50 mm paks etc etc etc. The problem with the 76 is that it is so unpredictable and nobody builds a unit which is so random in its performence. If the tanks would have a more clearly defined role where we can say what they can do well and in which situations they suck then non US armor docs would also build more tanks and thus helping also to restore the balance. Simply dropping cost as did in last patch of 76 shermans doesnt helps to make them more appealing. The unit just needs a "role" for what it is or should be made for. In case of 76 guns would mean to be reliable effective against medium tanks, struggling against Tigers and Panthers and almost entirely usless against Elephants and JT´s etc. That would help a lot but such randomly performing units are just crap.
And Tiger: Autry is the only BK map that has a huge fuel point right next to the base and so many medium fuel points. I even think that Autry provides more fuel as any other map.
Edit: I think its just stupid that it is cheaper to go for SP as to get all the stuff that allows some kind of quantity playing. For US it should be easier and cheaper to get the neccessary stuff to be able to spam shermans as to get SP´s. The cost of the supply yard upgrades, sandbags and HVSS cost together more fuel and MP as to get that single SP and much more as to get a single pershing. It should actually be more or less the opposite. The required upgrades for SP cost 95 fuel more as to get a sherman 60 more as to get e8. All supply yard upgrades which are needed to be playable as quantity faction cost approx. 800-900 mp and 240 fuel or more and still no unit fielded and the fuel issue is not solved and upkeep still higher as those of axis counterparts and supply yard build cost is also not included but which are also needed to get SP. Sandbags and smoke screen unolock also not included. So its very obvious that jumbo, pershings and SP are always the prefered way. And the SP is easily worth 3 e8 in anti tank warfare.
Last edited by Warhawks97 on 11 Feb 2015, 22:07, edited 1 time in total.
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Krieger Blitzer
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Re: ISSUES
Again, u r right with all said about the 76mm guns.. they are so weird!! But I am afraid of any weapon values change! And yes Autry should be typically an Axis map as they btw already held both middle fuel points since start but although that they still somehow lost for many balancing reasons and also several own mistakes committed by them...
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V13dweller
- Posts: 128
- Joined: 25 Nov 2014, 09:18
- Location: Perth, Western Australia
Re: ISSUES
Tiger, even though I support your argument, you can't win against this guy.
He will fight until his during breath to make the game easier for the allies even when it is fine like it is, these things mustn't have been a problem before or they'd have been fixed.
Sherman's with HVAP never have problems with tigers.
I'll post more later, but reading anything Warhawks writes is extremely draining,
At this rate the mod will be an Allied mod in no time, since all the people who supported the axis have disappeared. And public pressure from certain individuals is causing the mod to lean to towards the allies.
I do expect and 11 paragraph answer that will be 80℅ flame and 20℅ backchat.
He will fight until his during breath to make the game easier for the allies even when it is fine like it is, these things mustn't have been a problem before or they'd have been fixed.
Sherman's with HVAP never have problems with tigers.
I'll post more later, but reading anything Warhawks writes is extremely draining,
At this rate the mod will be an Allied mod in no time, since all the people who supported the axis have disappeared. And public pressure from certain individuals is causing the mod to lean to towards the allies.
I do expect and 11 paragraph answer that will be 80℅ flame and 20℅ backchat.
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Warhawks97
- Posts: 5395
- Joined: 23 Nov 2014, 21:45
- Location: Germany
Re: ISSUES
V13dweller wrote:Tiger, even though I support your argument, you can't win against this guy.
He will fight until his during breath to make the game easier for the allies even when it is fine like it is, these things mustn't have been a problem before or they'd have been fixed.
Sherman's with HVAP never have problems with tigers.
I'll post more later, but reading anything Warhawks writes is extremely draining,
At this rate the mod will be an Allied mod in no time, since all the people who supported the axis have disappeared. And public pressure from certain individuals is causing the mod to lean to towards the allies.
I do expect and 11 paragraph answer that will be 80℅ flame and 20℅ backchat.
viewtopic.php?f=16&t=308&view=unread#unread
comment this pls.
How many shermans you see and how many Panthers??ß and who has much more fuel at any time? NOT US! I had such a game a battle of halbe and i tried to use e8´s. I got fucked by Tank IV´s, Tigers and finally elephant! We had more fuel points and still the axis could swim in fuel! So get your brain button ON and comment this replays. comment my Blitzkrieg replays where i got 5 Tank IV´s in 12 mins of which US armor could just dream about!
And 76 has no prob with vs tiger with HVAP... first get enough ammo for always HVAP. HF if you dont play autry high res map or road to chearbourgh. And even with HVAP Tiger os not simply killed by 76 sherman. I had to use hellcat and jumbo HVAP and almost lost jumbo against immobilized Tiger.
Also axis supporters gone.... it had been how many? 2 or 3? How many left forum because they saw no sence in arguing agaimst those 3? Many.... i could write a list of easily 15. Funny that just two days ago when i rushed 9th airborne divison and his clan with a few mates that he told me that it is more or less impossible to win against some skilled axis players. I told him to write that in forum but his answer was that he left it because it is crowded by axis fanboys. I could luckily convince him from the opposite and he just did his first post yesterday somewhere here in the forum. I hope his mates will also join.
And that supply yard is extremly overpriced and that US armor doc struggles massive fuel issues is confirmed by every experienced player here in forum as well as from many who doesnt participate here but with whom i play almost every day. I have another replay from sukin, terence and zhivago where they played axis and ObersturmbannführerWurf (who is producing large number of Panthers in the replay in the link above) as allied and uS armor doc. All he could get were two Pershings which booth got crushed by a single Jagdpanther. I can upload that as well altough the entire game is kinda boding camping of double def and TH doc.
Also sukin.Kot has another replay where he beat us with his SP and where we got a perma spam of Panther G, Tigers and Kintigers. At the end of the game he told me that he struggeld fuel and that the SP was the only thing that could stop our tanks. Ask him pls to upload the replay. We could upload 100 replays showing that US armor cant field tanks really and you still wont belive me probably.
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V13dweller
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Re: ISSUES
How about you summarize it? I am sick of your walls of text, especially when I use this website on mobile, and I can't use the replays section as myself and my mates all run 4.8.1.0 and replays won't work. And reading this while working takes way too long, eats up all my break and I don't want to come home and read it, as it's just annoying.
We PVP all the time, and these things are never presenting themselves of problems to us.
My solution to stop this problem you speak of is axing the supply yard entirely, but this opinion only comes as you constantly whine and gripe about it being a much large problem than it is, and I am personally sick of it. You just go on an on. I honestly don't know how you can do this almost every day, but it's torture to read and I am sick of it.
An eyesore, day after day.
We PVP all the time, and these things are never presenting themselves of problems to us.
My solution to stop this problem you speak of is axing the supply yard entirely, but this opinion only comes as you constantly whine and gripe about it being a much large problem than it is, and I am personally sick of it. You just go on an on. I honestly don't know how you can do this almost every day, but it's torture to read and I am sick of it.
An eyesore, day after day.
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Krieger Blitzer
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Re: ISSUES
@Dweller; hmm, u r right and I agree... xD
But please install v4.85
@Warhawks; Oh fine, as we said and I am actually not up for anymore arguments or discussions.. I don't mind greatly decreasing the cost of Supply Yard upgrades or even greatly reducing the cost of both Sand Bag upgrades as well as E8 HVSS upgrade cost too!! They all should be almost for free... Are u now much happier?? But absolutely nothing more should be done for Allies.
But please install v4.85
@Warhawks; Oh fine, as we said and I am actually not up for anymore arguments or discussions.. I don't mind greatly decreasing the cost of Supply Yard upgrades or even greatly reducing the cost of both Sand Bag upgrades as well as E8 HVSS upgrade cost too!! They all should be almost for free... Are u now much happier??
But absolutely nothing more should be done for Allies.-
V13dweller
- Posts: 128
- Joined: 25 Nov 2014, 09:18
- Location: Perth, Western Australia
Re: ISSUES
My mates and I (9 of us, 10, including myself) all play 4.8.1.0 as we like the game as it is, and don't like the new changes, as the changes are not what we hoped for.
We think the game works as it is and don't most of the changes, some features tempt us, but the cons outweigh pros, so we stick with the current version, PVP works well enough and believe it would be depreciated with newer versions.
There is very little chance of us ever going up unless something major happens.
We think the game works as it is and don't most of the changes, some features tempt us, but the cons outweigh pros, so we stick with the current version, PVP works well enough and believe it would be depreciated with newer versions.
There is very little chance of us ever going up unless something major happens.
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Butterkeks
- Posts: 492
- Joined: 23 Dec 2014, 17:42
- Location: Germany
Re: ISSUES
Well again I can just say Warhawks is totally right.
Tiger... pls just stop posting. Everytime Warhawks posts something, he has evidence, he writes down stats makes good suggestions and simply tells how it is from different perspectives.
Your posts are like: "I only play BK doc but now more tham you. I won all my games only due to Tigers so I need them OP like this."
Seriously. I played those WM AT squads and they ARE OP. As Warhawks said they ran through several units and MGs not loosing a single.unit to them.
All you say is "No they are not". Of course you say that because you basically use only double WM AT squad rushes so you need them like this.
I also have to agree with Warhawks on fuel upkeep. You are always saying Tiger has to be so OP because of realism. So why not more of it? It would be realistic if US could field ten times more tanks.than Axis. Because they could and did in WWII. But they have an higher upkeep than Axis in coh? Wat?
To all.of your "epic" replays. Again Warhawks is right. They only show how you shred an entire army with AT squad Rush and Tigers. No skill, just use of OP units.
so ffs, start playing Armor doc against good players and then show me one of your "epic" replays.
Jumbo is just fine. It's often the only.possibility for armor doc to fight heavy german tanks. But as a giod player can endangere your precious Tiger... yeah, what an OP unit.
Warhawks is not an Allies fanboy, he just tells how it is.
If anybody here is a fanboy, then you are clearly an Axis fanboy Tiger. Always complaining about "OP Allies units" while only using op Axis units.
And stop crying for "realism" everytime your Tiger gets shot. This is a game it needs BALANCE not REALISM. (And even if it would, the allies managed to kill all.those Panthers and Tigers in WWII. So why can't they in BK?)
Tiger... pls just stop posting. Everytime Warhawks posts something, he has evidence, he writes down stats makes good suggestions and simply tells how it is from different perspectives.
Your posts are like: "I only play BK doc but now more tham you. I won all my games only due to Tigers so I need them OP like this."
Seriously. I played those WM AT squads and they ARE OP. As Warhawks said they ran through several units and MGs not loosing a single.unit to them.
All you say is "No they are not". Of course you say that because you basically use only double WM AT squad rushes so you need them like this.
I also have to agree with Warhawks on fuel upkeep. You are always saying Tiger has to be so OP because of realism. So why not more of it? It would be realistic if US could field ten times more tanks.than Axis. Because they could and did in WWII. But they have an higher upkeep than Axis in coh? Wat?
To all.of your "epic" replays. Again Warhawks is right. They only show how you shred an entire army with AT squad Rush and Tigers. No skill, just use of OP units.
so ffs, start playing Armor doc against good players and then show me one of your "epic" replays.
Jumbo is just fine. It's often the only.possibility for armor doc to fight heavy german tanks. But as a giod player can endangere your precious Tiger... yeah, what an OP unit.
Warhawks is not an Allies fanboy, he just tells how it is.
If anybody here is a fanboy, then you are clearly an Axis fanboy Tiger. Always complaining about "OP Allies units" while only using op Axis units.
And stop crying for "realism" everytime your Tiger gets shot. This is a game it needs BALANCE not REALISM. (And even if it would, the allies managed to kill all.those Panthers and Tigers in WWII. So why can't they in BK?)
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Butterkeks
- Posts: 492
- Joined: 23 Dec 2014, 17:42
- Location: Germany
Re: ISSUES
"Tiger can detect ambushes, makes perfect sense"
-Tiger1996
Do I need to say more?
-Tiger1996
Do I need to say more?
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Warhawks97
- Posts: 5395
- Joined: 23 Nov 2014, 21:45
- Location: Germany
Re: ISSUES
V13dweller wrote:How about you summarize it? I am sick of your walls of text, especially when I use this website on mobile, and I can't use the replays section as myself and my mates all run 4.8.1.0 and replays won't work. And reading this while working takes way too long, eats up all my break and I don't want to come home and read it, as it's just annoying.
We PVP all the time, and these things are never presenting themselves of problems to us.
My solution to stop this problem you speak of is axing the supply yard entirely, but this opinion only comes as you constantly whine and gripe about it being a much large problem than it is, and I am personally sick of it. You just go on an on. I honestly don't know how you can do this almost every day, but it's torture to read and I am sick of it.
An eyesore, day after day.
nobody forces you. And if you play 4.8.1 anyway so why you talking about 4.8.5? What about installng 4.8.5, watch replays and then go back to 4.8.1? I also think that you guys never use the full axis fuel force to win the game and seldomly using Tank IV´s aggressively.
To subsumme: US armor doc has no fuel, dozens of pointless fuel intensive fuel upgrades that prevents effective tank production for about 1 hour, game relys on Jumbo and SP. Axis: straight forward tank production without upkeep issues and without fuel intensive upgrades combined with res trade allowing huge number of Tigers and Panthers at the same time by one player. Thats a short summary.
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Krieger Blitzer
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Re: ISSUES
@Keks; Again u attempt to attack me while I don't have to reply this heck anymore cause I actually did so already several times, and what u don't know is that actually me and Warhawks are almost usually agreeing each other on most of our points btw! And I think I have already posted game replays of mine showing how I can use Armor doctrine very well smashing hundred Tigers... But now also go check other players recently posted game replays and see how Axis tanks heavy spam is just so pointless and die instantly like flies or papers. And I do very well understand and realize what is Warhawks pointing on but we are just having a not pointless discussion about how achieving would be anyhow possible without damaging balance or realism!
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Butterkeks
- Posts: 492
- Joined: 23 Dec 2014, 17:42
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Re: ISSUES
Tiger1996 wrote:@Keks; Again u attempt to attack me while I don't have to reply this heck anymore cause I actually did so already several times, and what u don't know is that actually me and Warhawks are almost usually agreeing each other on most of our points btw! And I think I have already posted game replays of mine showing how I can use Armor doctrine very well smashing hundred Tigers... But now also go check other players recently posted game replays and see how Axis tanks heavy spam is just so pointless and die instantly like flies or papers. And I do very well understand what is Warhawks pointing on but we are just having a not pointless discussion about how achieving would be anyhow possible without damaging balance or realism!
Tiger1996 wrote:Or that one when the Jumbo stopped JPs of Sukin's topic titled as "Cyberzombie and Butterkeks vs Kot and Terence" I mean that u r not even in need of numbers when playing as Armor doctrine in order to beat Axis spam! And btw as u have seen me before, I usually don't use Hellcats as stationary ambushes but as rapid flanking attacks ^^
it didn't. The SP killed the JPs. Jp shells only bounced a few times on Jumbo.
no
Tiger1996 wrote:As always Warhawks, u complain after playing as Allies and specifically when as US Armor doctrine.. even if u were the winner actually! ^^ I can't agree all of ur points but as I have said it once before on the topic which u wrote titled as "stupid game"; I agree to only greatly decrease the cost of all Supply Yard upgrades, but if the fuel upkeep issues are fixed as u want in order to suit a better situation for the Armor doctrine to become more reliable of spamming instantly like the Blitz doctrine then I believe the Jumbo tank must not stay as strong as it is in a result. Which means more weapon values to be played on while that is something not suggested anymore as said...
And btw; as u know the Armor doctrine is already capable of deploying more tanks as probably regarded a double of what the Blitz doctrine is actually able to produce as that according to all the screenshots posted and replays u can obviously see what I mean considering the production stats.
But I am also aware that the Armor doctrine is able to spam more only at a long term while the Blitz doctrine is capable of spamming instantly and not at a long term like the Armor doctrine. And that in my opinion very well fulfills the 'Blitz' concept... If the Armor doctrine somehow anytime becomes able to spam both instantly and at long terms then this will be just unstoppable and the Blitz doctrine will be easily doomed!! The Armor doctrine is already a perfect counter to both the Blitz and Terror docs.
For me I find no problems dealing out the early Blitz doctrine instant spam through several 1v1s however that the WH AT squads as I mentioned before are not brutal and they quickly die at least as I can see using the suppression combined with HE shells of Shermans... Also just the weakness of Allies HMGs is exactly the main reason of what makes u feel that those Axis AT squads are immortal while they are actually not.
The US 76 mm guns are sometimes acting so brutal but others so bullshit as I said but this is something I can deal with as well...
@Cyber; What u mean with that ur Tiger was actually able to detect the hidden Hellcat?! U mean just spotted the Hellcat out to be visible only on the map or also to be visible on the real battle ground using the Tiger??!! If just on the map then u have to know that this is because of the tank awareness. And it's legit btw...
Well these actually show he you refuse all points, only crying for Jumbo nerf. Also the same as always. It is a fact that Allies have an higher upkeep on tanks and worse tanks. But still you are denying these facts.
This is why I can't take any of your post serious. Because you always write the same. "Buff Tiger, nerf Allies (especially Jumbo)"
I still challenge you to a 1v1, me as BK, you as Armor. Let's see how high your skills are then and how OP Allies are after that for you.
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Cyberzombie
- Posts: 76
- Joined: 25 Nov 2014, 01:45
- Location: Germany
Re: ISSUES
@Tiger: My Tiger tank was able to detect an hidden Hellcat so it was shown on the minimap. And this is absolutely unnecessary! It´s enough that PE TH doc can "smell" hidden tanks. No need for other units to be able to do the same!
So pls remove that.
Do you know why Warhawks posts so long posts and brings them up everythime? He knows how to argue, he brings up facts and arguments in order to be able to discuss here and the only answer I see is "too much text I don´t read it". Then if he summarizes people say that there is no evidence for what he´s saying. Just lol.
And he brings it up all the time because nothing changes and those issues are obviously a big problem.
If you like to admit it or not.
It is a fact that US always lacks fuel.
It is a fact that all german docs can bring up powerfull tanks while on allied side it´s basically only armor doc) so armor doc is always outnumbered.
It is a fact that 76mm is totally unreliable. You always have to waste your ammo on HVAP to kill even medium tanks - what is not always working.
And i could go on like this for a while...
It might be true that you don´t face those problems while playing with your mates but trust me I face them everytime playing BK. And I play all factions with every doc.
Regarding Jumbo nerf:
It´s the only unit capable of fighting the early axis medium tanks and you want to nerf it even when there is a good chance to loose it even against only one tank IV (happens if you believe it or not) or simply against those superhuman AT squads. Furthermore it´s the only tank capable of facing pak38 and start an offensive (not I also lost some Jumbos against pak38 frontally lol).
Nerf it and the armor player is even more helpless in early - mid game.
Regarding WE AT squad:
I´m really not sure if some guys here know that they are OP and just don´t want any changes to them because they use it only for rushing some tanks and paks or if they really think running through dozens mgs and inf is acceptable while the american one can die from one top mg burst.
Regarding Tiger:
I don´t think it´s OP (except this stupid TigerPhobia). It could be a bit more expensive. The only 2 problems regarding Tiger are IMO:
- detecting hidden units
- too few tanks from us armor player (thanks supply yard upgrades!)
- unreliable 76mm guns
So pls remove that.
My solution to stop this problem you speak of is axing the supply yard entirely, but this opinion only comes as you constantly whine and gripe about it being a much large problem than it is, and I am personally sick of it. You just go on an on. I honestly don't know how you can do this almost every day, but it's torture to read and I am sick of it.
Do you know why Warhawks posts so long posts and brings them up everythime? He knows how to argue, he brings up facts and arguments in order to be able to discuss here and the only answer I see is "too much text I don´t read it". Then if he summarizes people say that there is no evidence for what he´s saying. Just lol.
And he brings it up all the time because nothing changes and those issues are obviously a big problem.
If you like to admit it or not.
It is a fact that US always lacks fuel.
It is a fact that all german docs can bring up powerfull tanks while on allied side it´s basically only armor doc) so armor doc is always outnumbered.
It is a fact that 76mm is totally unreliable. You always have to waste your ammo on HVAP to kill even medium tanks - what is not always working.
And i could go on like this for a while...
It might be true that you don´t face those problems while playing with your mates but trust me I face them everytime playing BK. And I play all factions with every doc.
Regarding Jumbo nerf:
It´s the only unit capable of fighting the early axis medium tanks and you want to nerf it even when there is a good chance to loose it even against only one tank IV (happens if you believe it or not) or simply against those superhuman AT squads. Furthermore it´s the only tank capable of facing pak38 and start an offensive (not I also lost some Jumbos against pak38 frontally lol).
Nerf it and the armor player is even more helpless in early - mid game.
Regarding WE AT squad:
I´m really not sure if some guys here know that they are OP and just don´t want any changes to them because they use it only for rushing some tanks and paks or if they really think running through dozens mgs and inf is acceptable while the american one can die from one top mg burst.
Regarding Tiger:
I don´t think it´s OP (except this stupid TigerPhobia). It could be a bit more expensive. The only 2 problems regarding Tiger are IMO:
- detecting hidden units
- too few tanks from us armor player (thanks supply yard upgrades!)
- unreliable 76mm guns
Re: ISSUES
In War Thunder 76mm can't bother the tiger over 1 km, except with APCR shell 
.
Allied MGs sucks unfairly - fact.
.Allied MGs sucks unfairly - fact.