Rifle AT nade being OP, crushing nazis faces

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Mr. FeministDonut
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Rifle AT nade being OP, crushing nazis faces

Postby Mr. FeministDonut » 20 Dec 2018, 01:11

Rifle heat rounds are now being a cheap version of bazooka squad, but with huge range, no aim delay and 100% no-miss chance.
On my own example, I usually making two riflemen squad with rifle grenades upgraded and just sprinting to the enemy light vehicles. To see how are they performing, watch replay
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mofetagalactica
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Re: Rifle AT nade being OP, crushing nazis faces

Postby mofetagalactica » 20 Dec 2018, 03:36

You need 3 riflenades to destroy anything bigger than scout car or ht's, so its not op for me its just usefull to make them run.

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Shanks
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Re: Rifle AT nade being OP, crushing nazis faces

Postby Shanks » 20 Dec 2018, 11:52

Mr. FeministDonut wrote:Rifle heat rounds are now being a cheap version of bazooka squad, but with huge range, no aim delay and 100% no-miss chance.
On my own example, I usually making two riflemen squad with rifle grenades upgraded and just sprinting to the enemy light vehicles. To see how are they performing, watch replay


your file is damaged, but you are right

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MarKr
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Re: Rifle AT nade being OP, crushing nazis faces

Postby MarKr » 20 Dec 2018, 13:03

Unlike bazooka teams, the Riflemen need to pay for the upgrade to get the option to shoot the grenades and then it is pay-per-shot. If you keep spaming the ability early on, where the HEAT grenades can actually do something to some units, you will burn through your ammo fast.

I think they have chance to miss - I am not 100% sure, I cannot check it now but I think the hit chance at max range is about 70%. Also the upgrade is sort of tricky - if the grenades miss a lot, nobody will use them because it will be more of a chance to waste ammo than actually cause some damage. If the grenades have less range than 60 (standard attack range) then nobody will use them because any axis vehicle can just kite the squad forever and the squad can never fire back at the vehicle.

So the grenade has quite high hit-chance and has 60 range. It does not one-shot HTs or armored cars so if the Riflemen take a shot at you, you should have an opportunity to retreat.
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Mr. FeministDonut
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Re: Rifle AT nade being OP, crushing nazis faces

Postby Mr. FeministDonut » 20 Dec 2018, 13:54

MarKr wrote:Unlike bazooka teams, the Riflemen need to pay for the upgrade to get the option to shoot the grenades and then it is pay-per-shot. If you keep spaming the ability early on, where the HEAT grenades can actually do something to some units, you will burn through your ammo fast.


So the grenade has quite high hit-chance and has 60 range. It does not one-shot HTs or armored cars so if the Riflemen take a shot at you, you should have an opportunity to retreat.

That's right, but there are two things. As ability is almost with no fail chance (although I never saw show was missed), it means every shot will get into the target and here we want to abuse that thing, since halftracks and armored vehicles are need two HEAT rounds to be destroyed. Make two sprinting rifles, two HEAT shots - BOOM and every spent ammunition is not wasted, since you inflict an armored unit loss for the enemy. To avoid that thing you would need to avoid riflemen themselfs, even with AI vehicles.
p.s: on 8 minute mark I just did, what I could do with bazooka team. And there are more examples in that replay
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Viper
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Re: Rifle AT nade being OP, crushing nazis faces

Postby Viper » 20 Dec 2018, 17:10

yes i think the accuracy is too much now.

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Re: Rifle AT nade being OP, crushing nazis faces

Postby The New BK Champion » 20 Dec 2018, 17:48

I think it's ok. It still requires weapon center

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Re: Rifle AT nade being OP, crushing nazis faces

Postby Mr. FeministDonut » 20 Dec 2018, 18:04

The New BK Champion wrote:I think it's ok. It still requires weapon center

??? What is the reason, if weapon center is just like phase 1 upgrade for Axis?

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Viper
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Re: Rifle AT nade being OP, crushing nazis faces

Postby Viper » 20 Dec 2018, 18:15

for any reason. it should not be 100% accuracy.
and i think it is too much because it makes every rifleman squad "anti tank boys" and if this comes together with improved 50cal is too much counter for panzer elite. i dont know what happens if you add british anti tank boys too.

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Re: Rifle AT nade being OP, crushing nazis faces

Postby Mr. FeministDonut » 20 Dec 2018, 18:27

Nah, they should have their 100% accuracy, tho their range is a bit too much for just a self-defence from a rushing armored cars

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Shanks
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Re: Rifle AT nade being OP, crushing nazis faces

Postby Shanks » 20 Dec 2018, 18:36

Viper wrote:for any reason. it should not be 100% accuracy.
and i think it is too much because it makes every rifleman squad "anti tank boys" and if this comes together with improved 50cal is too much counter for panzer elite. i dont know what happens if you add british anti tank boys too.



True, although the volks have panzerfauts .... but I feel somehow that the riflemen are stronger, because the panzerfaust is not vs inf, but the rifle-grenade is good vs inf and light vehicles....but the one that suffers most is PE, definitely, besides the sniper that almost paralyzes his infantry, his light vehicles are almost obsolete now; you should redefine the price of some of your light vehicles, such as the 28 mm vehicle, to be the glorious Panzer Elite again

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Warhawks97
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Re: Rifle AT nade being OP, crushing nazis faces

Postby Warhawks97 » 20 Dec 2018, 19:35

I dont get the issue now. German AT rifle squad fires these HEAT grenades non-stop bc its their primary weapon. They also run arround the field and shoot at targets at 60 range with sometimes 1 shot kills. Here its ok that a squad runs arround like a bzooka team killing any vehicle that cant escape within 2 seconds.

This US HEAT shot requires two buildings, one upgrade, pay per shot, animation time (that is longer than axis AT rifle squad aim time) and doesnt kill a vehicle outright. So where is the problem now?

The only different is that Axis squad is a dedicated AT squad, the US one an upgrade for a regular combat unit but the situation for "Halftracks" is for each side the same: There is squad that fires HEAT rounds out of a grenade launcher that kills halftracks and run arround like "bazooka teams" with more range. This rifle HEAT shot punishes PE, WH AT squad punished brits that are starting with dingo/bren carriers and Recces.

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Re: Rifle AT nade being OP, crushing nazis faces

Postby Mr. FeministDonut » 20 Dec 2018, 19:52

That's right, the topic is about AT weapon in hands of riflemen and we can't really compare AT squad just to riflemen.
You don't need to use anyway HEAT rounds, as there would simply no enemies that could be fair to waste your ammunition to fire. It is a little before than Pumas and 221/220 vehicles with AI weaponry coming. I just say that their range is too damn high, you getting no risk in killing vehicles

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Re: Rifle AT nade being OP, crushing nazis faces

Postby Shanks » 20 Dec 2018, 20:28

remember that a 50 caliber jeep (doc inf), can beat a scout car of PE 1v1 (scout car 300 MP-10 fuel vs jeep 280 MP), it is not fair, added this anti-armored grenade, it is a great nerf for PE, that's my fellow point...WM vs USA, they are the same, there is no imbalance, at least not very big

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mofetagalactica
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Re: Rifle AT nade being OP, crushing nazis faces

Postby mofetagalactica » 20 Dec 2018, 20:30

Its not op its fine that way it finally hits fucking soemthing

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Re: Rifle AT nade being OP, crushing nazis faces

Postby Mr. FeministDonut » 20 Dec 2018, 20:34

mofetagalactica wrote:Its not op its fine that way it finally hits fucking soemthing

Hits something in a range of half map :D :D :D

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Viper
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Re: Rifle AT nade being OP, crushing nazis faces

Postby Viper » 20 Dec 2018, 21:24

Mr. FeministDonut wrote:Nah, they should have their 100% accuracy, tho their range is a bit too much for just a self-defence from a rushing armored cars

yes. 100% accuracy is not fine....at this range.
so it should be less range or less accuracy.
overall i agree with you.

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Re: Rifle AT nade being OP, crushing nazis faces

Postby Panzer-Lehr-Division » 20 Dec 2018, 22:45

Agreed op, when i came back and rifleman where pooping out those wieghtless shell traveling exploding beans at me i actually went mad at bk again, give it a slower travel time aswell! So that you atleast get an chance to outmaneuver those american popeye poop beans
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Viper
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Re: Rifle AT nade being OP, crushing nazis faces

Postby Viper » 20 Dec 2018, 23:22

Panzer-Lehr-Division wrote:Agreed op, when i came back and rifleman where pooping out those wieghtless shell traveling exploding beans at me i actually went mad at bk again, give it a slower travel time aswell! So that you atleast get an chance to outmaneuver those american popeye poop beans

you found the problem.

yes. i just tested. the problem is the travel time......
accuracy is ok and range too.

but the travel time is crazy. faster than bullet.
it wasnt like this in the past. when did it become so fast?

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Warhawks97
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Re: Rifle AT nade being OP, crushing nazis faces

Postby Warhawks97 » 20 Dec 2018, 23:23

I might ask again, the way it works is as it seems the same way as axis AT-rifle squad works (which also fire rifle grenade style and no bullets out of a so called "schießbecher" (shooting cup) on top of rifles barrel.


So why technically i would say that everybody who plays allied vs wm would be used to such kind of weapon.
The only other way would be to make it piat like again....

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Re: Rifle AT nade being OP, crushing nazis faces

Postby Viper » 20 Dec 2018, 23:27

the whermacht anti tank rifle is like the cw anti tank boys.

but the rifle grenade is a rifle grenade, so it should be like piat. not anti tank rifle. so the travel time need to be slower.

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Re: Rifle AT nade being OP, crushing nazis faces

Postby Warhawks97 » 20 Dec 2018, 23:41

Viper wrote:the whermacht anti tank rifle is like the cw anti tank boys.

but the rifle grenade is a rifle grenade, so it should be like piat. not anti tank rifle. so the travel time need to be slower.



well, speaking about in game then WH is also kind of a "oneshoter" compared to CW "two-three-shot-killer."


from a realistic perspective its also a grenade launcher mounted on a 7,92 mm AT rifle. So its not a rifle but it behaves as one. So i dont see why allis grenade launcher cant work in a same way bc before it was totally usless vs vehicles.

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Viper
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Re: Rifle AT nade being OP, crushing nazis faces

Postby Viper » 21 Dec 2018, 02:15

the axis anti tank rifle does not 1 shot anything except jeeps. recce will need 3 hits and dingo will need 2 hits.

you can only 1 shot things if you use the anti tank ability but it costs 70 ammo. does not have 60 range. has aim time. and needs third tier phase upgrade.


from balance point of view. there many reasons why american rifle grenade travel time is crazy now......

first. it can shoot above obstacles. this means you can snipe mortar halftracks from 60 range ignoring any obstacles with precision.

second. it can 1 shot most panzer elite armored cars. and marder3 can die with 1 hit too.

third. it is available in all doctrines and unlimited.

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Re: Rifle AT nade being OP, crushing nazis faces

Postby The New BK Champion » 21 Dec 2018, 03:01

Viper chill out, it needs 2 shots to kill a halftrack... you are histerical now

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Viper
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Re: Rifle AT nade being OP, crushing nazis faces

Postby Viper » 21 Dec 2018, 03:20

The New BK Champion wrote:it needs 2 shots to kill a halftrack...

yes but armored cars from panzer elite can die with 1 hit.
i say armored cars. also marder.

2 riflemen with rifle grenades will beat 2 panzer elite 20mm (222) armored cars at 60 range, with no competition.

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