Fixing the 7-8 minute cromwell rushes
Posted: 06 Dec 2018, 23:56
This has been a rather old problem, but as things have been ironed out and cromwell no longer bounces continuously vs the rear of a panther I think this is worth addressing now.
So we have cromwells, 390 MP 40 Fuel tanks, an average gun, very cheap perma-HE switch (15 munitions), and flank speed to retreat from any enemy tanks grasp or close the distance insanely fast. All around a great tank, sometimes feels even better than a Sherman.
The problem however, is you can get this a lot faster in building it and to the front than you can get a sherman in the same manner. Sometimes, not even having the best reaction times and foresight (knowing it is coming) can save you.
This has to do with the cromwell not requiring any unlock whatsoever other than having an armor truck setup, and all you need to setup an armor truck is to get a support truck into the battlefield and just set it up. You only have to setup the support truck once, so once you get it; and you have the fuel to get an armor truck. Setup the the support truck right where it came from, pack it, then move it where you want while you build the armor truck. Get the armor truck to where you want it (and by this time you will probably have 40 fuel), get cromwells, notice it's only the 7th or 8th minute into the game. Flank speed it to the front, kill a single Pak 50 that can maybe get off oneshot against it (and even then cromwell can survive that), kill that pak; end the game.
A sherman is more fair partly because it comes slower to the front than a cromwell. Mainly because it requires the motorpool upgrade that delays it by 1-2 minutes more. Imagine what it would be like if the tank depot didn't require this motorpool upgrade and you could get a sherman without it; That's the situation with the cromwell right now.
The cromwell itself is already a very good tank, so delaying it by a minute or two won't change much other than stop a quick of rush of them from ending the game very quickly. Consider how every combat vehicle in the support truck; including the RE stuart, the staghound, the 57mm halftrack, and the 75mm autocar are locked behind the Captain. With even the 17 pounder and 17 pounder emplacement being locked behind the Captain. I think the cromwell rush in itself was a game design mistake forgotten about because back then it was perceived to be of no threat to immediately shooting AT guns and shrecks. But now it is a very different story as it can easily bypass these units and kill them no problem before any vehicle that can take on a cromwell (aka Stug) comes out.
So to give people a reason to get these other vehicles locked behind captain than just getting a cromwell to deal with any light vehicle, PAKs, infantry, even early tanks, etc. I propose cromwell to be locked behind Captain. But to go really indepth with the teching changes for the British I would have it this way:
- Cromwell is locked behind Captain
- Command tank is buildable without Captain
- Firefly, Achilles, etc. Vehicles that were only locked behind the Command tank require both the Command tank and the Captain
So you can still rush an armor truck, but this time you can only get a command tank or the AA crusader in it without the Captain. Ultimately, the timing of later units like a Firefly or Churchill don't change much with allowing people to get a command tank faster. But it helps people who are forgetful of getting their Captain when they want to rush a Churchill for example (so this is more of a quality of life change).
In any case Cromwell rushing is broken and considering how Captain teching works in the support truck; it was not intended to be designed this way. It only requires 1 British player to pull it off to essentially ruin an otherwise pull and tug war going on in the early-mid game (imagine 3 or even 4 of them doing it at once). So this should be a priority issue to take care of in the next patch.
So we have cromwells, 390 MP 40 Fuel tanks, an average gun, very cheap perma-HE switch (15 munitions), and flank speed to retreat from any enemy tanks grasp or close the distance insanely fast. All around a great tank, sometimes feels even better than a Sherman.
The problem however, is you can get this a lot faster in building it and to the front than you can get a sherman in the same manner. Sometimes, not even having the best reaction times and foresight (knowing it is coming) can save you.
This has to do with the cromwell not requiring any unlock whatsoever other than having an armor truck setup, and all you need to setup an armor truck is to get a support truck into the battlefield and just set it up. You only have to setup the support truck once, so once you get it; and you have the fuel to get an armor truck. Setup the the support truck right where it came from, pack it, then move it where you want while you build the armor truck. Get the armor truck to where you want it (and by this time you will probably have 40 fuel), get cromwells, notice it's only the 7th or 8th minute into the game. Flank speed it to the front, kill a single Pak 50 that can maybe get off oneshot against it (and even then cromwell can survive that), kill that pak; end the game.
A sherman is more fair partly because it comes slower to the front than a cromwell. Mainly because it requires the motorpool upgrade that delays it by 1-2 minutes more. Imagine what it would be like if the tank depot didn't require this motorpool upgrade and you could get a sherman without it; That's the situation with the cromwell right now.
The cromwell itself is already a very good tank, so delaying it by a minute or two won't change much other than stop a quick of rush of them from ending the game very quickly. Consider how every combat vehicle in the support truck; including the RE stuart, the staghound, the 57mm halftrack, and the 75mm autocar are locked behind the Captain. With even the 17 pounder and 17 pounder emplacement being locked behind the Captain. I think the cromwell rush in itself was a game design mistake forgotten about because back then it was perceived to be of no threat to immediately shooting AT guns and shrecks. But now it is a very different story as it can easily bypass these units and kill them no problem before any vehicle that can take on a cromwell (aka Stug) comes out.
So to give people a reason to get these other vehicles locked behind captain than just getting a cromwell to deal with any light vehicle, PAKs, infantry, even early tanks, etc. I propose cromwell to be locked behind Captain. But to go really indepth with the teching changes for the British I would have it this way:
- Cromwell is locked behind Captain
- Command tank is buildable without Captain
- Firefly, Achilles, etc. Vehicles that were only locked behind the Command tank require both the Command tank and the Captain
So you can still rush an armor truck, but this time you can only get a command tank or the AA crusader in it without the Captain. Ultimately, the timing of later units like a Firefly or Churchill don't change much with allowing people to get a command tank faster. But it helps people who are forgetful of getting their Captain when they want to rush a Churchill for example (so this is more of a quality of life change).
In any case Cromwell rushing is broken and considering how Captain teching works in the support truck; it was not intended to be designed this way. It only requires 1 British player to pull it off to essentially ruin an otherwise pull and tug war going on in the early-mid game (imagine 3 or even 4 of them doing it at once). So this should be a priority issue to take care of in the next patch.