I have to correct myself.
Axis grenade range is 30 range. Alli grenade range is 25.
that means that everything that is withing Axis grenade range is already long range.
means when an Axis can throw a grenade at your tank or inf you know that your tank/inf is already using long range penetration modifier. This means there is no bonus
when you get closer. No accuracy boost, no pen boost, no cooldown boost... simply no boost.
So it doesnt matter if you let your tank shoot from closer distances or not, it will in 90% of your cases trigger distant range shot. So it makes no sense to "close in". It only matters when you are already within grenade range.
And its not an issue out of the sudden. Just nobody every read when i mentioned it.
I said it when we talked about 88 gun accuracy (btw, the Tiger 88 will soon have much better accuracy than King Tigers 88), when we talked about top mounts....
I told to many players already that are learing BK. I told them that you wont gain anything unless your goal is to get as close as grenade range.
And no, not all guns
In terms of tanks i think the KT is the only correct tank. Here the brackets are 20/30/50/60. So it does have a realistic chance to trigger close range shots or even mid range.
Also AT guns arent broken so far. Most have 15/30/45/55.
Tiger and Panther, Jagdpanther have it that way as well.
I think if there should be a realistic chance for tanks to make close range hits, it would need to be at least 15-20 range to be count as close range. Mid and long range would have to be from 20-50 and the last 10 range (or 20, depending on tank) would need to count as so called distant range or max range.
Then there are units taken one to one from vanilla coh. Like top mounts.
The jeep is funny as well. Here medium range ends at 15 range
already. Thats less than alli grenade range. Long and Distant are both the same which means no matter if you are 15 range or 60 range away, the jeep keeps the same.
Schwimmwagen has short range up to 12 range and medium range at 24.
All range brackets are messed up, even within same guns. Tank IV doesnt gain much from closing in. When churchills got buffed in terms of armor Tank IV´s and stuff received a pen buff at "short range" by 25%. Bad thing is in order to use that you have to get as close as 10 range
, Alli grenade range is 20!.
So devs have wasted lots of time in order to add 25% pen boost at close range for Tank IV and stug guns but you cant use it. This is just hilarious.
They waste time for something but forgot to make it actually working but and now dont even want to fix it.
And i dont want to change all weapons. Sub machine guns like thompson have 10/20/35/45 range. Seems fair. Those could even be 10/20/30/40. Rifles and lmgs could have 15/30/40-45/60.
Tank guns could be like 15-20/35/50/60.
Smaller vehicles could keep as they are perhaps as those can get closer much easier. Staghound for example has 10/25/40/55. Perhaps it could be 15/30/45/60. Like rifles and lmgs.
If you think its a lot of work? Its not as much as you think. Believe me.
Thx markr, and now perhaps do the same for tanks.But distant and max range is one and the same. So you can actually make the outer blue circles as basically one huge that dominates 40% of the entire cirlce. So from 35 range onwards 60 it uses one and the same value and thats distant.
So people can see how close a tank has to get in order to trigger mid range pen.
And perhaps make a line for the minimum range of tanks. You will see how absurd unrealistic is to make a short range shot or even a mid range shot.
Issue here again: Everything beyond this 25 range uses simply same accuracy drop (long/distant). Its like saying hitting a target 1 km away is as easy as hitting one that is 400 meter away. Most tank gunners would disagree.
but thx so much markr. I hope more will understand the problems. All i want is a better distribution of what is close, mid, long and distant range. Bc atm the game is all about distant range. And those who dominate here will dominate most of the game bc distant range is everything in BK. Distant range is life.
MarKr wrote: I don't think it is needed. You say that people "fall for the myth that fighting at close range is better", what myth? When you get closer, cannons DO have stronger penetration and firearms DO get more accurate. At least I haven't noticed anyone complaininng that upgrading SMGs is pointless because there is no noticeable difference. And so what, that tanks can rarely use the "short" range? If you get as close as you can get, you still get better penetration than when you shoot from maximum possible distance.
As long as you stay outside Axis grenade range you dont get buffs. Bc from Max and distant range (which is the same) towards grenade range nothing boosts your Pen/accuracy whatever.
Dont you see that?
If there is some bracket range inconsistency between tanks (you mentioned PIV and Hetzer) then it will be fixed too. It IS possible that some differences exist and I am unaware of them because it was not me who made the files and I don't spend my free time going through hundreds of lines of each of the files just to check if maybe something isn't off in them. These things are solved when they pop up. And what the heck is suddenly up with your perception of ranges?
Yes, but then use Hetzer/Tiger/Panther/Jagdpanter/Jagdpanzer IV/AT gun as orientation and not Tank IV/sherman etc.
One half is ok, the other is not. So dont break them all.
For years you have talked about the ranges without any confusion and suddenly you start asking if people mean "close range by their perception or by the corsix range classification"? Close range is still the same as it has been for years, "long range" is still the same as it has been for years (except for the Garand), but suddenly people mean something else when they speak about ranges?
I at least talked about a dozens of times in the past 1-2 years about that issue but i just mentioned it together with other stuff.
I mean i really did that dozens of times. Even when we had the discussion about Garands for the first time.
I haven't checked all the guns but you keep saying that Kar98 has same stats for the the las two range brackets and that changing the brackets (for all guns?) would help balance the Garands... so 1 gun (which in terms of files means 3 files) acts differently and so the solution is to change like 200 weapon files (don't know exact number I did not count them) instead of...I don't know...changing the 3 files that have no differentiation between two of their 4 range brackets?
No, you dont get what i mean.
I dont care whether K98 or guns use the same accuracy/cooldown/reload etc modifier for long and distant range in the first place (thats something that can be tuned step by step in the long run). I mean it would be more logical to have a continues drop, sure, but my main complain is that Distant range alone makes up for about 40% of the total weapon range (sometimes even more) while short, mid and long range have to share the other 59%.
I mean why should one value decide about the effectivness over 40% of weapons range while you have 3 to adjust the other 60%. For everything beyond axis grenade range to max range we do use only one value!
So yes, sub machine guns are different because at these distances (0-25) weapons do get huge performance boosts. Thats what i meant that in relation to BK only the firing range has increased without adjusting the range brackets. Only a handfull units which i mentioned got the right range brackets.
Someone asked me some questions about accuracy and penetration in general. It doesn't 100% apply here, but i might as well share what I made for my own mod and get some corrections.
It's a really basic calculator. Some of the other tabs don't really apply to BK because I'm trying to figure out how morale works. But the first tab that I relabeled to "calculator" was a starting place for me. This does apply to BK. It essentially calculates the probability of a unit being hit/penetrated at various ranges. Note, this works completely differently in CoH2 let alone my mod, so I never built it with the complexity needed to fully make it worthwhile in BK. Feel free to dick around and test your own values.https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing
Interesint but perhaps you missed one range bracket? You gave min range which is minimum range at which a target can be engaged and a max one that tells you the range the weapon can fire.
But then you have only short, mid and long range. I tried to use 15/25/35/48 range brackets like current rifles have it and tried shooting a target at 55 range. It told me #NUM in results.
So you would need to add the distant range bracket or am i wrong? So we enter the min and max fire range and then the four brackets between them?
Would be aswesome if you could do that.
Edit: Kwok just updated it. So we got all range brackets. Thx so much.