An idea for making Royal arty worth using again.

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Captain_Frosty
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Joined: 29 Dec 2017, 13:06

An idea for making Royal arty worth using again.

Postby Captain_Frosty » 11 Apr 2018, 19:01

Hello

I have played this mod for quite a while now,even before buying CoH (yarr harr harr)
and have noticed that the royal artillery doctrine seems to be in a rather weird spot.

The royal arty doctrine seems to have undergone a nerf…
and then another one
and another one…

And while a nerf is completely understandable,it seems to have been a bit too much since right now it’s in a state where playing RA is an active hindrance as it’s primary focus,the 25pdr is basically unusable,unless you’re in an extremely specific situation,in which case,you’ll find that it’s still not as good as other nation’s equivalents

Currently,the 25pdr is basically an overpriced immobile version of the Granatwerfer 34 (the german mortar) with it’s only redeeming features being the creeping barrage,which is expensive as hell,and the aimed salvo.
My suggestion is to switch the focus of the Royal arty tree from “superior firepower”,which it no longer fulfills anyway,to “mobile artillery” by completely removing the 25pdr as a stationary emplacement and instead turning it into a mobile arty piece much like the nebelwerfer or,as a better example,the US airborne 75mm howitzer.

Spawned from the support CV and with a limit of 4 units active at any time and a basic camo ability the 25pdr could easilly make up for it’s cost and rather weak shells through it’s versatile nature and mobility.
Through this the dummy ability would also gain an large value,as it could now be used as a way to effectively switch positions without the enemy knowing as well as keeping the ability’s worth the same during the whole match since the enemy can no longer simply find your actual arty piece and ignore it.

The dummy would also be a mobile unit,with a rather cheap cost,a faster movement speed but no camo ability,so experienced players will have a chance to tell the dummy apart from the real thing.

Lastly,the creeping barrage ability seems to spawn in extra shells every time the 25pdr fires,largely to compensate for the fact that if the 25pdr tried to fire that many shells for that whole area once by one,it’d take about an hour.
with the introduction of mobile 25pdrs that compensation should be removed in order to make sure that the RA user has to choose between concentrating his firepower for maximum effect over a (relatively) small area or splitting up his units for full map coverage but with limited effect.

Any criticisms or further suggestions are welcome below,thanks for reading!

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Warhawks97
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Location: Germany

Re: An idea for making Royal arty worth using again.

Postby Warhawks97 » 11 Apr 2018, 20:57

Ok.

1. RA is what keeps allied in late game during 3 vs 3 and 4 vs 4. Its literally mandatory
2. The artillery in game is broken as fuck anyway. Dont make me list everything here again.2
3. Unmobile Howitzers in game are crap for most of their time. There is too much better, cheaper and earlier available arty. Sadly US doesnt have competetive mobile arty at all compared to all other factions.
4. We cant make 25 pdr movable. No model.
5. Perhaps we we have a sexton model available? Its an spg with 25 pdr.
6. The Brits already use the Priest as american unit and the 75 mm HT. Add the pack howitzer and remove the 25 pdr and there would nothing be british anymore in this doc. At this point it would become too hilarious if you ask me. CW has an arty doc that uses only good american arty stuff while US absolutely lacking them. As if they forgot to equip their own forces when they signed the land-lease deal. Like: "Where is all our good artillery?". "Sorry Sir, I´ve just put them on this ship over there that is heading for the british forces."


My personal thoughts:

1. We have too much very far reaching arty for low cost. In fact, all arty received massive range boost compared to vcoh. Only howitzers got range decrease.. yes they have less range than in vcoh-> Logic? The range for howitzers would have to go up from currently 225 (250 vcoh) to at least 275 for US 105, axis 105 and cw 25 pdr. Mobile howitzers (Wespe, Priest and Hummel only) from 200 to 225 or 250.
2. CW should rather stay as artillery superiority doctrine. For that we would have to remove the limit on 25pdr and make them cheaper as any other howitzer.
3. Make artillery more faction specific. That would mean:

Axis:
What they have currently so far. Certain rocket artillery units could have a bigger scatter. That means axis would have a range of area bombardment rocket artillery but also (less accurate) Howitzer arty and heavy stormtartillery. Additonally axis had very few but very heavy artillery units with long range. Most famously among them is the "17 cm kanone 18". They also had the "210 cm Mörser 18" but was quite short ranged (14,5 k compared to over 20 km of long tom). I would like to have perhaps one of them as off map. Perhaps not most accurate but devestating in an area (instead for example the def doc off map rocket arty strike).

CW:
Short ranged close support howitzers (as RE has it) and RA doc as superiority artillery unit. Far reaching 25 pdrs that can continuesly bombard enemie positions. The damage per hit is limited as it has only a calibre of approx 87mm.
Additionally devestating 114 mm artillery. As accurate off map barrages but also area bombardment ability (as we already have it)

US:
In game no unmobile artillery at all. As US was the most advanced artillery faction and the only fully mobile (mechanized) i dont see any reason to keep the static howitzers anymore. They would use the shorter ranged 105 shermans and Priests (standard salvo and air burst) as mobile arty. Priest capable to do VT. Additonally strike on target off maps with quick strike session with 105 and 155 mm. Long barrages but also short barrages.
The only not mechanized artillery unit for US would be the 75 mm pack howitzers as those were used by airborne.

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Shanks
Posts: 405
Joined: 22 Nov 2016, 22:02

Re: An idea for making Royal arty worth using again.

Postby Shanks » 11 Apr 2018, 21:38

Captain_Frosty wrote:Hello

I have played this mod for quite a while now,even before buying CoH (yarr harr harr)
and have noticed that the royal artillery doctrine seems to be in a rather weird spot.

The royal arty doctrine seems to have undergone a nerf…
and then another one
and another one…

And while a nerf is completely understandable,it seems to have been a bit too much since right now it’s in a state where playing RA is an active hindrance as it’s primary focus,the 25pdr is basically unusable,unless you’re in an extremely specific situation,in which case,you’ll find that it’s still not as good as other nation’s equivalents

Currently,the 25pdr is basically an overpriced immobile version of the Granatwerfer 34 (the german mortar) with it’s only redeeming features being the creeping barrage,which is expensive as hell,and the aimed salvo.
My suggestion is to switch the focus of the Royal arty tree from “superior firepower”,which it no longer fulfills anyway,to “mobile artillery” by completely removing the 25pdr as a stationary emplacement and instead turning it into a mobile arty piece much like the nebelwerfer or,as a better example,the US airborne 75mm howitzer.

Spawned from the support CV and with a limit of 4 units active at any time and a basic camo ability the 25pdr could easilly make up for it’s cost and rather weak shells through it’s versatile nature and mobility.
Through this the dummy ability would also gain an large value,as it could now be used as a way to effectively switch positions without the enemy knowing as well as keeping the ability’s worth the same during the whole match since the enemy can no longer simply find your actual arty piece and ignore it.

The dummy would also be a mobile unit,with a rather cheap cost,a faster movement speed but no camo ability,so experienced players will have a chance to tell the dummy apart from the real thing.

Lastly,the creeping barrage ability seems to spawn in extra shells every time the 25pdr fires,largely to compensate for the fact that if the 25pdr tried to fire that many shells for that whole area once by one,it’d take about an hour.
with the introduction of mobile 25pdrs that compensation should be removed in order to make sure that the RA user has to choose between concentrating his firepower for maximum effect over a (relatively) small area or splitting up his units for full map coverage but with limited effect.

Any criticisms or further suggestions are welcome below,thanks for reading!




tell me what is your nick in steam, and I'll show you how "weak" is RA ... lol

kwok
Posts: 1252
Joined: 29 Mar 2015, 05:22

Re: An idea for making Royal arty worth using again.

Postby kwok » 11 Apr 2018, 22:56

ANGRE ANGRE ANGRE

drivebyhobo
Posts: 92
Joined: 08 Mar 2015, 00:53

Re: An idea for making Royal arty worth using again.

Postby drivebyhobo » 11 Apr 2018, 23:33

kwok wrote:ANGRE ANGRE ANGRE

Nothing like the topic of artillery to get people angry, but it really is something of a mess that could use some attention. I know I was surprised to see a change to the AVRE in 5.1.4 which had long been nerfed into the ground.

Warhawks97 wrote: As if they forgot to equip their own forces when they signed the land-lease deal. Like: "Where is all our good artillery?". "Sorry Sir, I´ve just put them on this ship over there that is heading for the british forces."

Heh, in the days of very very old BK, Infantry doctrine had the M7. Also speaking of good artillery, it's fortunate for those bothered by artillery that there is no M12 GMC available for CoH.

Warhawks97 wrote:
US:
In game no unmobile artillery at all. As US was the most advanced artillery faction and the only fully mobile (mechanized) i dont see any reason to keep the static howitzers anymore. They would use the shorter ranged 105 shermans and Priests (standard salvo and air burst) as mobile arty. Priest capable to do VT. Additonally strike on target off maps with quick strike session with 105 and 155 mm. Long barrages but also short barrages.
The only not mechanized artillery unit for US would be the 75 mm pack howitzers as those were used by airborne.

I'd see that as trading one misrepresentation for another. Mechanized artillery took prominence, but static howitzers were still an important element to US artillery, just that great pains were taken to increase their mobility (mass motorization in WW2 and afterwards in Korea/Vietnam with helicopter transportation).

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Shanks
Posts: 405
Joined: 22 Nov 2016, 22:02

Re: An idea for making Royal arty worth using again.

Postby Shanks » 12 Apr 2018, 02:06

kwok wrote:ANGRE ANGRE ANGRE



Hahajahahhaha.....Do you want some "angre" on a big map?...On the other hand, I also want to say, that I like it when a new player from bk comes to say things here, like "RA does not work" ... in fact it's almost OP hahahha ... so I can show to they a bit of angre, if they want, of course

kwok
Posts: 1252
Joined: 29 Mar 2015, 05:22

Re: An idea for making Royal arty worth using again.

Postby kwok » 12 Apr 2018, 06:48

ANGRE is an inside joke between shanks and i.

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Warhawks97
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Joined: 23 Nov 2014, 21:45
Location: Germany

Re: An idea for making Royal arty worth using again.

Postby Warhawks97 » 12 Apr 2018, 10:33

drivebyhobo wrote:I'd see that as trading one misrepresentation for another. Mechanized artillery took prominence, but static howitzers were still an important element to US artillery, just that great pains were taken to increase their mobility (mass motorization in WW2 and afterwards in Korea/Vietnam with helicopter transportation).


You got me wrong. I know that they had tons of them. A lot more of static howitzers than spgs. But they were still mechanzied entirely. And since we cant have this in BK i would remove the static guns perhaps. The off map strikes are provided by these static units staying outside the map in your imagination.
That was my point. Didnt say US didnt use static howitzers^^.

kwok
Posts: 1252
Joined: 29 Mar 2015, 05:22

Re: An idea for making Royal arty worth using again.

Postby kwok » 12 Apr 2018, 10:45

I will 1v1 the ANGRE on a big map, shanks. You know I asked you of this many times already.

JimQwilleran
Posts: 1107
Joined: 07 Jan 2015, 15:05

Re: An idea for making Royal arty worth using again.

Postby JimQwilleran » 12 Apr 2018, 11:37

Ra is the best doc of the game. It just contains everything you need.

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Tiger1996
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Re: An idea for making Royal arty worth using again.

Postby Tiger1996 » 12 Apr 2018, 12:11

Well, ya... I have to agree that RA doc is currently one of the most lethal doctrines of all time; I even believe that 17pdr emplacements shouldn't be available for RA doctrine anymore.. but exclusively for RE doctrine only.

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Sukin-kot (SVT)
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Re: An idea for making Royal arty worth using again.

Postby Sukin-kot (SVT) » 12 Apr 2018, 13:08

What's with that whine arround RA doc? Currently it is MUCH less powerfull than it was 2-3 years ago, when it had unlimited howitzers and VT with separate cooldown on each unit. Back then, I could literally destory any Axis atack just with arty (3 spotters + 3-4 recce and you could use VT with 2 Priests + 4-5 howitzers every 30 secs for 50 ammo). That was an ultimate bombardment. Now its a pretty mediocre doc.

Maybe it started to be overused again after devs removed 95mm Cromwell and Rocket Jeep from air doctrines (idiotic decision).

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Shanks
Posts: 405
Joined: 22 Nov 2016, 22:02

Re: An idea for making Royal arty worth using again.

Postby Shanks » 12 Apr 2018, 13:40

Sukin-kot (SVT) wrote:Now its a pretty mediocre doc.



Doc RA is mediocre?

@kwok...Yes, i know hahaha


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