Balance blues and other musings.

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MenciusMoldbug
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Balance blues and other musings.

Postby MenciusMoldbug » 06 Apr 2018, 11:11

Coming back to BK I have tried to play every build I can do and these are the things I have made notes of and made my recommendations for balancing/suggestions:

US:

Captain call-in riflemen cost 300 mp, have 7 men, come with 2 BARS, and cost 18 to reinforce instead of 25 like a normal rifle squad does. Is this intentional? If not, please take a look at the reinforce cost and adjust it to where the normal riflemen squad is.

US medium tanks AP shells cost too much to fire. If the plan is to have a mass army of medium tanks vs a Tiger or something bigger. Then paying 75 munitions to load AP rounds is too much. Loading 3 76 shermans with AP is 225 munitions. Which means it's actually cheaper to use the 90mm guns as armor doc for the AP rounds than shermans since they both cost the same to load(also note the commonwealth sherman AP rounds cost 75 munitions to fire as well). The cost should be around 50 munitions instead of 75.

US Tank Destroyers(M10/Hellcat) share the same problem where their AP shells cost 75 munitions to fire(M10 HEAT shell also costs 75 munitions to fire despite being a single shell to use instead of 3-4 like normal AP rounds). Cost should be around 50 munitions here as well.

Most of the newly added tanks(even m4 chaffee) and 90mm guns share the same accuracy tables in corsix(25% chance at missing from distant and long range) while axis tanks have increased accuracy when the range shifts from distant to long. The 76mm guns should at least be slightly more accurate if the enemy tank is 25-40 meters away(0.8 acc instead of 0.75).

US Inf doc should be allowed to get their M10s for 1 CP instead of 2 as they desperately need mobile AT to deal with axis armor later on in the game(where as AB has many recoiless rifles/bazookas for their airborne squads and bombing runs).

Pershing Ace MG ability does not seem to be very useful. Its reload penalty on the main gun when activated(last I checked corsix I think it was 35% slower?) means it's actually a detriment to use it if there are tanks around. Lower or remove the reload malus or buff the MG's even more.

CW:

Sappers are very tough engineer units who cost the same as american engineers to reinforce(15). They should have a slightly higher reinforce cost; around 16-20 mp per model.

RE doc heavy mines being behind roadblocks means you will never see them unless someone is a dedicated mine layer type of guy. Should be the other way around where heavy mines are unlocked first then roadblocks are unlocked second.

RE doc 57mm churchill is much worse in all ways compared to the 75mm churchill with HE rounds except for the fact it comes earlier since it does not need a CCT. If it is supposed to fight stugs/panzer 4s it is woefully inadequate. It doesn't auto target infantry with its guns so you must manually click on enemy infantry if you want it to attack them. It's also too slow to chase after light vehicles so it really has no purpose but of shock value. Its cost should be adjusted to reflect this or its gun should be buffed in accordance to how much it costs; maybe it could fire much faster than it does now.

For the cost of 400 mp and 15 fuel, the Bren WASP carrier with the flame thrower has the range of a PE AT grenade. The soap bubbles coming out of its weapon only leave axis warm and fuzzy feelings unless they hold position where it is shooting for a good 4-5 seconds. It is also slow and dies easily to paks or sprinting AT teams. The range of the weapon should slightly be increased or its cost should be lowered.

RAF has no tools to deal with 88 emplacement spam. This is much worse when fighting Luftwaffe 88 emplacement spam as they have vampire halftracks to spot marine commandos who are trying to crawl towards the emplacements and destroy them.

To somewhat help with the problem above. The M2A4 Field Gun RAF gets in their tetrarch glider should be allowed to have an artillery barrage ability that's similar to the one used by the 75mm le.IG for Wehrmacht.

Commando, with Boys AT Rifle. Why is he 200 mp and only one man? He gets sniped/killed so easily. Raise the cost to 300-350 mp and make it 3 men like the normal AT boys squad.

RA doc is too self-sufficient. It has everything it needs to spot enemies for itself (artillery spotters, air recon) and defend itself (17p emplacements, firefly, achilles) and is always the most dangerous to axis late game with its many artillery abilities tied to Priests. The air recon ability should be replaced with something else; or the 17p emplacement should be RE exclusive.

95mm Cromwell does not benefit from unlocking supercharge rounds, is this intentional? If not, can they be allowed to benefit from it?

WM:

Regarding this:

MarKr wrote:Changelog:
- Increased reload time on PIV F2/H/J, StuG III/IV, Hetzer and JPIV 75mm L48 to 7 seconds
- Tweaked stats of 57mm/6pounder guns vs PVs (removed -6% accuracy; penetration increased by approximately +10%)

WM:
- PIV H needs the "H" unlock (2CP)
- PIV J needs the "H" unlock + "Faster production; comes cheaper right away (3CP in total)
- Mass production makes "H" cheaper, does not affect cost of "J"


Can the PIV H be made slightly cheaper(530 mp/75 fuel)? These are pretty big nerfs for a signature tank of a doctrine that otherwise would have people picking Terror. Which is exceptionally better except for not having a PIV with top gunner and side skirts.

Blitzkrieg doc should get back their evasive maneuever stormtroopers instead of having to wait 7 CPs(!!!) to receive that ability. If that is a problem, just tie it in with the assault ability so it is 5 CPs instead of 7.

It is worth noting that demolition stormtroopers start with evasive maneuevers.

Panzer IV Ausf. D costs too much manpower for being easily destroyed by 37mm guns. Should be 300-350 mp instead of 400.

The reward unit 75mm le.IG costs a lot more while being far less useful than a Pak 50mm. Its cost should be decreased if it is going to replace the Pak 50mm. 300 mp/25 munitions instead of 350 mp/25 munitions.

How come Wehrmacht officer doesn't get a special call-in unit while every other faction big officer does(Ranger Captain, Captain, Hauptmann)? He should be part of that one big happy call-in family. Maybe some type of fusilier squad like COH 2 has and they come with G43s or something.

The Elefant is an iffy unit. Too slow to dodge artillery strikes or bombers and its weapon range means it can't catch any enemy vehicle. If it is supposed to be a bunker type unit, better off with 88 emplacements/at guns instead. Just give it +5 range and see how it works out(as SP currently outranges when it is not in firing position).

The 20mm halftrack for def doc is worse than a puma. Why is it 35 fuel? should be 20-25.

Worth mentioning that Terror doc sector propaganda is overshadowed by propaganda war ability which pretty much does the same thing it does except it's cheaper and is available for use earlier. Sector propaganda for terror should work like a reverse version of for the fatherland for def. Where instead of just making enemy units retreat in a sector, it should debuff them(less accuracy, more received accuracy, slower fire rate, etc.).

The def doc new 88 at gun emplacement... Why would anyone pay 400 mp 50 fuel when it only has AP rounds? The 360 degree 88 emplacement one unlocks with it only costs 110 mp and 20 fuel more. Which also doesn't need to rotate and can use HE on infantry as well. Lower the cost of the other or let it be unlocked with the pantherturms.

PE:

There is no reason to get the reward unit Jagdpanzer IV/48 over the Hetzer. Not only does it cost more and is slower than the hetzer(speed of 4.0 vs hetzer's 4.2). It has no top gunner MG and no flank speed. Its cost should be the same as the Hetzer if it is replacing it; as its drawbacks are already big enough.

Goliaths in general deserve more received accuracy modifiers as they die to fast to any squad shooting at them for even 2 seconds.

The Sd.Kfz. 250/1 Halftrack (MG34 halftrack) should have a cost of either 300 MP/10 Fuel or 250 MP/15 fuel as its window of opportunity is very small(mid-late game it will never be seen because of all the AT allies have; early game scout cars are better). The medic halftrack is much more useful.

Panzergrenadiers are the most expensive builder squad to reinforce in the game. It should be slightly decreased; as having volks level of kar98k accuracy with the ability to repair and build along with it is not worth 28 mp per model. Even if they can be upgraded, it is only 2 G43s. Lower it to around 26-25 mp.

Light Tanks in general:

They should fire faster the closer they are to the target(like PIATS do ingame). If a Stuart is behind a stug at point blank, it should be firing twice as fast then it does at maximum range. Of course the detriment is that being close to infantry units will get you killed by AT, disabled, or whatever else.

Elite infantry in general:

All factions should have the ability to perform vehicle buttoning. Tie US vehicle buttoning with Rangers LMG upgrade. WH with Grenadiers LMG upgrade.

This is getting pretty long winded so I will end it here. These are only suggestions so make of them what you will.

JimQwilleran
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Re: Balance blues and other musings.

Postby JimQwilleran » 06 Apr 2018, 11:42

I agree with all the points.

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Tiger1996
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Re: Balance blues and other musings.

Postby Tiger1996 » 06 Apr 2018, 12:30

Really interesting list so far, here are my thoughts...

Captain call-in riflemen cost 300 mp, have 7 men, come with 2 BARS, and cost 18 to reinforce instead of 25 like a normal rifle squad does. Is this intentional? If not, please take a look at the reinforce cost and adjust it to where the normal riflemen squad is.

I can agree.

US medium tanks AP shells cost too much to fire. If the plan is to have a mass army of medium tanks vs a Tiger or something bigger. Then paying 75 munitions to load AP rounds is too much. Loading 3 76 shermans with AP is 225 munitions. Which means it's actually cheaper to use the 90mm guns as armor doc for the AP rounds than shermans since they both cost the same to load(also note the commonwealth sherman AP rounds cost 75 munitions to fire as well). The cost should be around 50 munitions instead of 75.

US Tank Destroyers(M10/Hellcat) share the same problem where their AP shells cost 75 munitions to fire(M10 HEAT shell also costs 75 munitions to fire despite being a single shell to use instead of 3-4 like normal AP rounds). Cost should be around 50 munitions here as well.

Most of the newly added tanks(even m4 chaffee) and 90mm guns share the same accuracy tables in corsix(25% chance at missing from distant and long range) while axis tanks have increased accuracy when the range shifts from distant to long. The 76mm guns should at least be slightly more accurate if the enemy tank is 25-40 meters away(0.8 acc instead of 0.75).

I can't really agree with this one though, the 76 Shermans can be all upgraded with AP as well as HE rounds after the Armor doc unlock... Also, I don't think they should be improved any further... I think Shermans already received too many improvements, and it's enough! With the next patch v5.1.4 they are already becoming a dangerous threat; I think generally Pz4 vs Shermans and 50mm vs 57mm AT guns are all very balanced now.
And 76 Shermans don't have to be any better against Axis heavies.. higher numbers are already a considerable advantage!


US Inf doc should be allowed to get their M10s for 1 CP instead of 2 as they desperately need mobile AT to deal with axis armor later on in the game(where as AB has many recoiless rifles/bazookas for their airborne squads and bombing runs).

Hmm, i would be fine with the 2nd RL coming back to 101st squads.. specifically as long as HE rounds have been improved, being much more deadly in addition to all handheld AT weapons having 2 seconds aim time. Though, even earlier Wolverines or Hellcats.. is something I can never support.


Pershing Ace MG ability does not seem to be very useful. Its reload penalty on the main gun when activated(last I checked corsix I think it was 35% slower?) means it's actually a detriment to use it if there are tanks around. Lower or remove the reload malus or buff the MG's even more.

I have no opinion here really, but yes... I think u have a point, most importantly.. if Axis docs would stay as they are; then PACE should be available as a 2nd option call-in beside the 1 time only SP and then the player would be free to choose.. basically what Mofeta suggested in the past!
This would also allow Armor doc players not to completely lose hope if they go for the SP first and then lose it.. they would still have the PACE.


Sappers are very tough engineer units who cost the same as american engineers to reinforce(15). They should have a slightly higher reinforce cost; around 16-20 mp per model.

RE doc heavy mines being behind roadblocks means you will never see them unless someone is a dedicated mine layer type of guy. Should be the other way around where heavy mines are unlocked first then roadblocks are unlocked second.

Fine with me.


RE doc 57mm churchill is much worse in all ways compared to the 75mm churchill with HE rounds except for the fact it comes earlier since it does not need a CCT. If it is supposed to fight stugs/panzer 4s it is woefully inadequate. It doesn't auto target infantry with its guns so you must manually click on enemy infantry if you want it to attack them. It's also too slow to chase after light vehicles so it really has no purpose but of shock value. Its cost should be adjusted to reflect this or its gun should be buffed in accordance to how much it costs; maybe it could fire much faster than it does now.

Already the case in v5.1.4 at the moment.. just made a test, and the 6pdr Churchill killed 2 Pz4.H even without being penetrated a single time.
I'm even afraid it might be over-performing to some extent this way right now, but let's see...


For the cost of 400 mp and 15 fuel, the Bren WASP carrier with the flame thrower has the range of a PE AT grenade. The soap bubbles coming out of its weapon only leave axis warm and fuzzy feelings unless they hold position where it is shooting for a good 4-5 seconds. It is also slow and dies easily to paks or sprinting AT teams. The range of the weapon should slightly be increased or its cost should be lowered.

RAF has no tools to deal with 88 emplacement spam. This is much worse when fighting Luftwaffe 88 emplacement spam as they have vampire halftracks to spot marine commandos who are trying to crawl towards the emplacements and destroy them.

To somewhat help with the problem above. The M2A4 Field Gun RAF gets in their tetrarch glider should be allowed to have an artillery barrage ability that's similar to the one used by the 75mm le.IG for Wehrmacht.

Commando, with Boys AT Rifle. Why is he 200 mp and only one man? He gets sniped/killed so easily. Raise the cost to 300-350 mp and make it 3 men like the normal AT boys squad.

RA doc is too self-sufficient. It has everything it needs to spot enemies for itself (artillery spotters, air recon) and defend itself (17p emplacements, firefly, achilles) and is always the most dangerous to axis late game with its many artillery abilities tied to Priests. The air recon ability should be replaced with something else; or the 17p emplacement should be RE exclusive.

I approve all of those points.


Can the PIV H be made slightly cheaper(530 mp/75 fuel)? These are pretty big nerfs for a signature tank of a doctrine that otherwise would have people picking Terror. Which is exceptionally better except for not having a PIV with top gunner and side skirts.

Don't think so really.. as I just mentioned above, Pz4s and Shermans are rly balanced now in 5.1.4 and I think no further changes would be needed.

Blitzkrieg doc should get back their evasive maneuever stormtroopers instead of having to wait 7 CPs(!!!) to receive that ability. If that is a problem, just tie it in with the assault ability so it is 5 CPs instead of 7.

It is worth noting that demolition stormtroopers start with evasive maneuevers.

I am really unsure about this one.. but I am probably fine either ways, just I think the Storms should be able to crawl with Shrecks.

Panzer IV Ausf. D costs too much manpower for being easily destroyed by 37mm guns. Should be 300-350 mp instead of 400.

Very insignificant, but i agree.

The reward unit 75mm le.IG costs a lot more while being far less useful than a Pak 50mm. Its cost should be decreased if it is going to replace the Pak 50mm. 300 mp/25 munitions instead of 350 mp/25 munitions.

Just the LeiG.18 shouldn't actually replace the 50mm Pak in the first place...

How come Wehrmacht officer doesn't get a special call-in unit while every other faction big officer does(Ranger Captain, Captain, Hauptmann)? He should be part of that one big happy call-in family. Maybe some type of fusilier squad like COH 2 has and they come with G43s or something.

Could be cool.


The Elefant is an iffy unit. Too slow to dodge artillery strikes or bombers and its weapon range means it can't catch any enemy vehicle. If it is supposed to be a bunker type unit, better off with 88 emplacements/at guns instead. Just give it +5 range and see how it works out(as SP currently outranges when it is not in firing position).

Wholeheartedly agreed on this one.
Current basic range for Elefant is 65 and 75 from static position, while I believe the basic range should be 70 and 80 with static.
Keeping in mind SP basic range is 70 but can reach 80 with the Armor doc command car...

The 20mm halftrack for def doc is worse than a puma. Why is it 35 fuel? should be 20-25.

Maybe.

Worth mentioning that Terror doc sector propaganda is overshadowed by propaganda war ability which pretty much does the same thing it does except it's cheaper and is available for use earlier. Sector propaganda for terror should work like a reverse version of for the fatherland for def. Where instead of just making enemy units retreat in a sector, it should debuff them(less accuracy, more received accuracy, slower fire rate, etc.).

Brilliant idea there!

The def doc new 88 at gun emplacement... Why would anyone pay 400 mp 50 fuel when it only has AP rounds? The 360 degree 88 emplacement one unlocks with it only costs 110 mp and 20 fuel more. Which also doesn't need to rotate and can use HE on infantry as well. Lower the cost of the other or let it be unlocked with the pantherturms.

I also share the same opinion.

There is no reason to get the reward unit Jagdpanzer IV/48 over the Hetzer. Not only does it cost more and is slower than the hetzer(speed of 4.0 vs hetzer's 4.2). It has no top gunner MG and no flank speed. Its cost should be the same as the Hetzer if it is replacing it; as its drawbacks are already big enough.

Goliaths in general deserve more received accuracy modifiers as they die to fast to any squad shooting at them for even 2 seconds.

The Sd.Kfz. 250/1 Halftrack (MG34 halftrack) should have a cost of either 300 MP/10 Fuel or 250 MP/15 fuel as its window of opportunity is very small(mid-late game it will never be seen because of all the AT allies have; early game scout cars are better). The medic halftrack is much more useful.

Panzergrenadiers are the most expensive builder squad to reinforce in the game. It should be slightly decreased; as having volks level of kar98k accuracy with the ability to repair and build along with it is not worth 28 mp per model. Even if they can be upgraded, it is only 2 G43s. Lower it to around 26-25 mp.

Light Tanks in general:

They should fire faster the closer they are to the target(like PIATS do ingame). If a Stuart is behind a stug at point blank, it should be firing twice as fast then it does at maximum range. Of course the detriment is that being close to infantry units will get you killed by AT, disabled, or whatever else.

Elite infantry in general:

All factions should have the ability to perform vehicle buttoning. Tie US vehicle buttoning with Rangers LMG upgrade. WH with Grenadiers LMG upgrade.

I could agree with all these points as well...

EDIT:
Forgot this point...
95mm Cromwell does not benefit from unlocking supercharge rounds, is this intentional? If not, can they be allowed to benefit from it?

Ya, but also it shouldn't have flank speed ability.

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Warhawks97
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Re: Balance blues and other musings.

Postby Warhawks97 » 06 Apr 2018, 12:57

Agree as well.

About the Allied AP cost. Armor gets them later upgraded for free but in general i agree.

US:
I though about two things:

1. TD´s can use AP for 50 ammo as those have received more special rounds and the M10 and their 3 inch guns have received more of them earlier.
2. A WSC upgrade so that using AP rounds on 76 mm guns cost only 50 ammo. Tank depot upgrade required or simply supply yard build (?).

Tanks accuracy is a weird thing. Some are very high at default, others have same long and distant acucuracy and so on.

WM:
About the tank IV H i do agree. Just i am still slighlty afrait as they are still way better than the easy eight when facing each other but costing then almost the same (just H comes earlier and less upkeep)

I would link the crawl with the assault ability.

the 75 mm leig was somewehere mentioned to become non reward and def doc only? Or am i mistaken here.

WM officer has off map arty in exchange for not having a call in.

The heavy 88 is a better 88 as the flak 36 88. It has the 88 mm L/43. It pens any tank easily. SP, Crocc, Jumbo. Thats why it costs that much.
But idk about the damage. If the flak 36 still has its insane damage (150-200 compared to 135-165 of the "better" 88) it then looks a bit unfair though.


CW:
Sappers and inf squads cost a lot to build so in return they got cheaper reinforce cost.
Yes, RA is the most powerfull and important allied doc in late game and carrys the entire team. Perhaps the one or other thing can be removed. However my critic is that the entire allied faction is in teamfights in the long run in such a desperate need of this single doc and the skill of the player playing it.

The first churchill uses the 6 pdr. So it gets buffed vs tank IV´s just like the AT guns.


But very nice list.


Few things i want to mention from my side and what ive send to markr already.

1. The US 37 mm AP shells is usless. Its pen vs tanks bigger than Tank IV D is so low that the boost does not make any difference. The Axis 37 mm with basic shells is vastly better vs shermans as the US 37 mm is against normal tank IV´s with AP. The max range pen of axis 37 mm vs sherman is better as the US 37 mm point blank pen vs tank IV. Thus the AP shells are usless.
In return, the US 37 pens any tank IV´s rear easily (100% max range) while axis has a chance to bounce from shermans rear. The small paks are quite weird currently.
2. The rear pen chances. For example the 50 mm AT and puma and stubby 75 have 100% chance to get through jumbos rear at any range. The US 75 mm has like 30% pen vs panthers rear. And then there are cases where you get no boost at all when hitting the rear (eg 76 vs Jagdtiger).
3. The sherman self repair ability with vet 2 could be replaced by wsc upgrade enabling this ability. Right now its an ability never used for many reasons.


About PE:

I agree to all points, esspecially the HT. But i think the entire faction design lacks a real function except having different doctrines to WH and stuff like Hetzer and Hummel.


I have experimented a lot arround with PE so that the faction is really different to WH. Esspecially in terms of Infantry and vehicle combined gameplay.
And there are lot of options to address it.

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Sukin-kot (SVT)
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Re: Balance blues and other musings.

Postby Sukin-kot (SVT) » 06 Apr 2018, 13:05

Very good ideas, I support pretty much all of them.

Additional balance issues:

- Pls, give RE a normal recon unit
- Do something with PE schwimwagen, it has ridicolously low HP and gets destoyed by everything in a blink of an eye, escpecially funny to see a duel with Jeep, sometimes I managed to kill 2 Schwims at once with a single Jeep. This unit got extinct actually, nobody uses it.
- Give back the second recoiless rifle to 101s rangers, with current aiming time and weapon stats a single recoiless is a joke
- Ostwind and Wirbelwind should not be penetrated by smallest guns so easy, at the moment any kind of atack with them is a suicide (allied inf butchers: quad cal, crusader and HE sherman are x100 times more cost effective)
- 28mm Sdkfz is an extremely weak unit, actualy its only purpose is to counter Recce, as it looses to any other light vehicle. Should cost MUCH cheaper.
- Buff maultier, is has zero pros in compare to any other mobile arty pieces, slow, expensive, low damage, low rate of fire (thats crucial, every unit escapes\retreats right after first rocket lands, moreover the scatter is very small, thats why the destruction and damage is painfully insufficient). With current stats, It should have very high rate of fire or remake it to have big Scatter but with big damage as well. I mean, just compare this unit with walking stuka or Calliope, such a shame...

===============================================================================================================================

Personal request which will make Axis doc composition more smooth.

Move Tiger 1 from Blitz doc to TH (the missing unlock will be filled by buffed Maultier for 2 CP), this small change will make a HUGE schift in meta, BK will not rush for tigers as always, but instead will play more actively with Storms and medium tanks (later Panthers). TH doc on the other hand will have some punch power, thus stop being the most boring doc in the game.

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Warhawks97
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Re: Balance blues and other musings.

Postby Warhawks97 » 06 Apr 2018, 13:10

I would await the new WH doctrines before making swap suggestions. Who knows which doctrine will contain what unit.

Doesnt mean i am against the Maultier change. But the issue is whole bigger i think.
One issue is regarding your scatter issue is that axis rocket artillery gets reduced scatter with vet so they actually turn into sniping units rather than area bombardment units such as the calli is.

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Re: Balance blues and other musings.

Postby Sukin-kot (SVT) » 06 Apr 2018, 13:14

Warhawks97 wrote:I would await the new WH doctrines before making swap suggestions. Who knows which doctrine will contain what unit.

New doctrines?

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Tiger1996
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Re: Balance blues and other musings.

Postby Tiger1996 » 06 Apr 2018, 14:30

Not literally new doctrines, he just means Axis docs rework that MarKr is planning for the future... I think it will be available for everyone to test.
Also it will not be enforced as far as I am concerned.. and could be even probably discontinued in case the feedback is negative, highly depends!

As for RE recon unit, I am not very sure what it could be other than the Dingo car... I mean, I'm fine with the idea; but what the recon unit could be?

2nd RL for 101st, ya.. already provided my viewpoint regarding that... I am fine with it now.

Ost and Wirbelwind, totally agreed.. and also agreed about 28mm car. Actually, even the Recce 50.cal can kill the 28mm car quite reliably!

Not sure about Maultier change or Tiger1 swap to TH doc.. perhaps we should first wait to see the docs rework that MarKr is planning.

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Redgaarden
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Re: Balance blues and other musings.

Postby Redgaarden » 06 Apr 2018, 17:57

US:

Captain call-in riflemen cost 300 mp, have 7 men, come with 2 BARS, and cost 18 to reinforce instead of 25 like a normal rifle squad does. Is this intentional? If not, please take a look at the reinforce cost and adjust it to where the normal riflemen squad is.


This was discussed before but nothing came out of it. They are set the reinforce cost as the same as pre-riflemen with mass mob. I'ts not intetntional.

US medium tanks AP shells cost too much to fire. If the plan is to have a mass army of medium tanks vs a Tiger or something bigger. Then paying 75 munitions to load AP rounds is too much. Loading 3 76 shermans with AP is 225 munitions. Which means it's actually cheaper to use the 90mm guns as armor doc for the AP rounds than shermans since they both cost the same to load(also note the commonwealth sherman AP rounds cost 75 munitions to fire as well). The cost should be around 50 munitions instead of 75.


You dont need anything else to spend munitions on as armor doc. And as other docs you dont spend munitions on ap ammo.

US Inf doc should be allowed to get their M10s for 1 CP instead of 2 as they desperately need mobile AT to deal with axis armor later on in the game(where as AB has many recoiless rifles/bazookas for their airborne squads and bombing runs).


The M10 is kinda on the same level as Marders and Stugs. I dont see a reason why they should cost cp. Someone suggested to replace m10 unlock with 90mm Jacksons, and let m10 be unlocked by default. I do not like that idea, but I definetly want m10 to be earlier avalible. And it feel kinda bad to use 2 cp on a unlock that doesn't have a branch and is just a single unit armor doc gets for free.

Sappers are very tough engineer units who cost the same as american engineers to reinforce(15). They should have a slightly higher reinforce cost; around 16-20 mp per model.


Reason for this is becasue of the high intial cost, this is intetnional.

RE doc heavy mines being behind roadblocks means you will never see them unless someone is a dedicated mine layer type of guy. Should be the other way around where heavy mines are unlocked first then roadblocks are unlocked second.


It should be avalible at the same time they become useful. after the enemy uses alot of cp to get heavy tanks.

RAF has no tools to deal with 88 emplacement spam. This is much worse when fighting Luftwaffe 88 emplacement spam as they have vampire halftracks to spot marine commandos who are trying to crawl towards the emplacements and destroy them.


They are not supposed to deal with emplacements.

To somewhat help with the problem above. The M2A4 Field Gun RAF gets in their tetrarch glider should be allowed to have an artillery barrage ability that's similar to the one used by the 75mm le.IG for Wehrmacht.


that ability is quite useless in my opinion. And it's plenty strong as it is now.

Panzer IV Ausf. D costs too much manpower for being easily destroyed by 37mm guns. Should be 300-350 mp instead of 400


The tank is really deadly but slow, feels a bit like an expensive use once tank with its price, and dont forget the 90 munitions HE. I support a cost reduction for this unit.

The Elefant is an iffy unit. Too slow to dodge artillery strikes or bombers and its weapon range means it can't catch any enemy vehicle. If it is supposed to be a bunker type unit, better off with 88 emplacements/at guns instead. Just give it +5 range and see how it works out(as SP currently outranges when it is not in firing position).


No need to buff this unit brawling capabilities. It's strong enough as it is.

The def doc new 88 at gun emplacement... Why would anyone pay 400 mp 50 fuel when it only has AP rounds? The 360 degree 88 emplacement one unlocks with it only costs 110 mp and 20 fuel more. Which also doesn't need to rotate and can use HE on infantry as well. Lower the cost of the other or let it be unlocked with the pantherturms.


I think def doc could some more early game emplacements and I agree with moving it to pantherturm. And 400manpower and 50 fuel is quite good when it kills all tanks that move into the arc. just think of it as a 17pounder on steroids.
Rifles are not for fighting. They are for building!

drivebyhobo
Posts: 85
Joined: 08 Mar 2015, 00:53

Re: Balance blues and other musings.

Postby drivebyhobo » 06 Apr 2018, 19:02

Redgaarden wrote:
US:

Captain call-in riflemen cost 300 mp, have 7 men, come with 2 BARS, and cost 18 to reinforce instead of 25 like a normal rifle squad does. Is this intentional? If not, please take a look at the reinforce cost and adjust it to where the normal riflemen squad is.


This was discussed before but nothing came out of it. They are set the reinforce cost as the same as pre-riflemen with mass mob. I'ts not intetntional.

Let's not forget that the minor advantage in the callin squad's reinforce cost also needs to be amortized against the captain's cost. You would need to lose and replace 36 riflemen from 7 man squads to payback the cost. Not exactly a big win.

I'd like to also note that the US Captain is the weakest officer unit bar none. The officer aura doesn't help US infantry as much as it does for the other factions. PE has a durable 3 man squad, Wehr Officer has a highly accurate mortar barrage that shreds infantry blobs and Brit officers are available at the start. The US officer really doesn't have much to set it apart.


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