The bunkers. Ultimate defence structure

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Mr. FeministDonut
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The bunkers. Ultimate defence structure

Postby Mr. FeministDonut » 05 Apr 2018, 04:35

Yup, the title. I really like to see Bunkers that would proof their cost. Right now only 1 man from squad can face the window on each side of bunker, which is making their use only for MG squad, but anyway building a bunker for 550 man power, just for another MG squad (320mp, 25muni) would be too expensive, of course, if you are not using, right now, almost useless comparing to others, defence doctrine. Would like to see more squad members able to face each window, lowering their cost and building time and maybe at least a repair station upgrade for every doctrine should make it more useful.
Any suggestions?

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|7th|Nighthawk
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Re: The bunkers. Ultimate defence structure

Postby |7th|Nighthawk » 05 Apr 2018, 08:08

Having more people be able to face the windows makes sense to me but lowering their cost and building time would encourage hard lock down gameplay even more. Axis bunkers already need to be blown up by micro and preparation intensive infantry with explosive charges at the moment because arty or planes take age and tons of ammo to kill it. The troops that can throw the charges are limited to specialized branches (Most rangers and maybe some of the commandos? Don't quote me on that) and placing the big explosives with engineers takes a long time in which you can just mow them down with some kind of indirect fire (like defensive or mortar barrage) or MG and I don't even know how big their damage in comparison to the thrown one is. If the repair bunker upgrade is as effective as the engineers you can upgrade your tank production buildings in base with, I'd say it's way too powerful to give it away for free. They have huge range, repair very quickly and they even respawn after some time if killed (though it would seem those kind of units sometimes bug out).
Lowering their cost for defensive doctrine in exchange for the removal of the invicible MG upgrade might be worth thinking about - but then again I can't judge what kind of impact that would have on the overall gameplay.

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MarKr
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Re: The bunkers. Ultimate defence structure

Postby MarKr » 05 Apr 2018, 09:14

The problem is that the number of "shooting slots" is set in the model of the bunker, we cannot change it unless we rework the entire model. I don't know how to edit models and from what I know it takes days to properly edit a model without messing it up in some way because you need to also add animations for the shooting posts and lots of other stuff. Though it is true that the most effective stuff you can put in is MG squad...maybe the bunkers could be built with an MG squad inside right away? Just an idea...

EDIT:
|7th|Nighthawk wrote:I don't even know how big their damage in comparison to the thrown one is.
The placed demo charges destroy a bunker in single explosion. That is why they take so long to place - it takes time ti prepare but then you take it out in one go. It was made like this because people complained that even if the soldiers inside a bunker get killed, the bunker still provides vision and destroying it with normal fire takes forever and satchel charges require several throws to destroy it.
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Tiger1996
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Re: The bunkers. Ultimate defence structure

Postby Tiger1996 » 05 Apr 2018, 13:05

MarKr wrote:maybe the bunkers could be built with an MG squad inside right away? Just an idea...

Nah, don't think so.
What if the player wants to put some AT squads inside the Bunker then? Ya, it's not only MGs that are useful inside Bunkers actually...
Also, if there is always an MG squad inside.. then there is little sense to upgrade the MG nest for Def doc Bunkers!
Little note though, I have noticed btw that the Def doc MG nest upgrade has different firing sound than all other MG42s which is really weird. Despite it's an MG42 upgrade for the Bunker, yet it uses the same firing sound effect as Mg34 like Axis tanks top turret MG.. and not the Mg42 sound somehow.

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MarKr
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Re: The bunkers. Ultimate defence structure

Postby MarKr » 05 Apr 2018, 13:28

Tiger1996 wrote:What if the player wants to put some AT squads inside the Bunker then? Ya, it's not only MGs that are useful inside Bunkers actually...
Then you put them in anyway? They can fit in too, or you can tell the MG squad to leave the bunker and put the AT squad inside? It is not like they would be locked in forever.
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|7th|Nighthawk
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Re: The bunkers. Ultimate defence structure

Postby |7th|Nighthawk » 05 Apr 2018, 13:43

The placed demo charges destroy a bunker in single explosion. That is why they take so long to place - it takes time ti prepare but then you take it out in one go. It was made like this because people complained that even if the soldiers inside a bunker get killed, the bunker still provides vision and destroying it with normal fire takes forever and satchel charges require several throws to destroy it.
Ah, that's good to know, thank you. Well, since it takes a lot of time to build a bunker, it is only fair that taking it out with a single hit should also take time.

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Warhawks97
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Re: The bunkers. Ultimate defence structure

Postby Warhawks97 » 05 Apr 2018, 13:52

Make them dof doc only? Upgrade required to build them and so the 450 MP become the standard cost anyway.

I dont see any reason why we need more bunkers being more effective in doctrines not even supposed to be defensive. Once its up it takes lots of MP and ammo to take it out. And the construction has eyes in their walls. Its not that you can clear them like emplacments. Taking one down costs always more as getting one up.

Mr. FeministDonut
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Re: The bunkers. Ultimate defence structure

Postby Mr. FeministDonut » 05 Apr 2018, 23:22

MarKr wrote: Though it is true that the most effective stuff you can put in is MG squad...maybe the bunkers could be built with an MG squad inside right away? Just an idea...

Maybe, anyway thing for such cost and long construction time should somehow rewarded.
Bunkers are icon of the German army, such as Tiger and Panther tanks, I don't really like if they just got deleted.

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Warhawks97
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Re: The bunkers. Ultimate defence structure

Postby Warhawks97 » 05 Apr 2018, 23:41

Icon of German army?Huh? Just bc of that normandy wall?

Perhaps we add the 380 mm SK 34 guns or the 406 mm variant of it: The "Adolf Gun"... or the canon 39 210 mm.
They were also quite iconic and were often displayed in propaganda videos, just like the Tiger. And they saw as much action as all the other iconic axis weapons. The Me 262 would be also great. It was very iconic, too. It was the fundament for all later jet designs (at least the wing angel).

Lets make everything iconic and use it as a reason to make it great again and possibly available in all docs.


Srsly. For those who really know about the german army of ww2 then the K98, MG42, Tank III and IV´s... Those are the real icons of german army of ww2.

Mr. FeministDonut
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Re: The bunkers. Ultimate defence structure

Postby Mr. FeministDonut » 06 Apr 2018, 00:19

You don't need to make iconic what is already an icon. German army was well-known in their love in bunkers.

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Redgaarden
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Re: The bunkers. Ultimate defence structure

Postby Redgaarden » 06 Apr 2018, 00:41

Make them dof doc only? Upgrade required to build them and so the 450 MP become the standard cost anyway.


But what about goliath? poor other doctrines can't live without it xD I see no reason why it should be removed.

.maybe the bunkers could be built with an MG squad inside right away? Just an idea...


Then you would need to increase the cost of the bunker. How about being able to build MG42 squads in the bunker? Kinda making them like a barracks.
But I would hope remving the invincible gunner would be a good idea. Too much troll comes from the invincible gunner.
Rifles are not for fighting. They are for building!


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