Rifleman

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Panzer-Lehr-Division
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Rifleman

Postby Panzer-Lehr-Division » 09 Mar 2018, 19:51

Hey, just a quick question *i had a big break before this new patch came out so i dont really know" can someone freaking tell me what is wrong with rifleman?, did they start to eat their spinach? also wth is with this cheap but overomgwtfbbq deadly allie Units now?. isn't it enough that sappers are 6 man of popeyes?, all i see now if everyone playing inf doc or armor and just win with their single rifleman spamm, it was pretty much okay before! now you see popeye u.s engineers and rambo rifleman taking head to head with assault grenadiers, and don't make me start talking about riflenades..i would love start talking about the nerf, uff i mean "specialized" future doctrine change for axis, but thats a different subject.
SunZiom: but true is you`re only one man which i know who really know how play PE
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Sukin-kot (SVT)
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Re: Rifleman

Postby Sukin-kot (SVT) » 10 Mar 2018, 10:50

That is new BK designed by Hawks :D Hang on, more awesome changes are coming (removing units from Axis docs and nerfing heavy tanks, coz they are too OP).

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Shanks
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Re: Rifleman

Postby Shanks » 10 Mar 2018, 11:01

if they touch something on the axis, they'll do bk shit, with all respect to the developers, this is the most likely thing ... the game right now is almost balanced !!!!!

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Tiger1996
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Re: Rifleman

Postby Tiger1996 » 10 Mar 2018, 12:42

I totally agree that the game now is almost balanced, at least to some extent.. hence, that's why I said before; I really hope the docs rework of Axis won't be enforced without proper PvP testing and for a sufficient long period of time in order to be sure whether it's actually worth it or not.

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Panzer-Lehr-Division
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Re: Rifleman

Postby Panzer-Lehr-Division » 10 Mar 2018, 12:50

Sukin-kot (SVT) wrote:That is new BK designed by Hawks :D Hang on, more awesome changes are coming (removing units from Axis docs and nerfing heavy tanks, coz they are too OP).


Well let's hope axis wont just have barracks to build in the future..


Edit: Almost balanced? have one of you ever fought 2 goodddddddd allie Players? probably not, you will feel how badass allie are when fighting pro allies not medium/weak. * no offense you know what i mean*
SunZiom: but true is you`re only one man which i know who really know how play PE
CyberdyneModel101: you're unstoppable

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Tiger1996
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Re: Rifleman

Postby Tiger1996 » 10 Mar 2018, 13:24

Edit: Almost balanced? have one of you ever fought 2 goodddddddd allie Players? probably not, you will feel how badass allie are when fighting pro allies not medium/weak. * no offense you know what i mean*

Well, I guess I absolutely know what you mean...
However, just to be honest here; as much as I have seen very good Axis players losing against very good Allied players, as much as I have also seen very good Allied players losing against other very good Axis players too.. yet again, probably I would have to say; at least almost as much! ^^

It highly depends on the map really, but again... I would say that the game is almost balanced, definitely not 50% to 50% balanced for each side tho.
Sometimes it makes you feel that the game is ~60% balanced to Axis favor, but other times; it also makes u feel that it's ~75% balanced for Allies favor!

So ya, there "might be" just a slight ~10% or ~15% overall favor to Allies at the moment.. but also; might not! As it's really hard to say in my opinion.
You see.. my point is; it can never be exact 50% to 50% balanced and I guess it will never be.
Though.. if it's hard to tell definitively, then it's actually somewhat almost balanced :) That's simply how I think about it currently.

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Shanks
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Re: Rifleman

Postby Shanks » 10 Mar 2018, 16:47

Tiger1996 wrote:
Edit: Almost balanced? have one of you ever fought 2 goodddddddd allie Players? probably not, you will feel how badass allie are when fighting pro allies not medium/weak. * no offense you know what i mean*

Well, I guess I absolutely know what you mean...
However, just to be honest here; as much as I have seen very good Axis players losing against very good Allied players, as much as I have also seen very good Allied players losing against other very good Axis players too.. yet again, probably I would have to say; at least almost as much! ^^

It highly depends on the map really, but again... I would say that the game is almost balanced, definitely not 50% to 50% balanced for each side tho.
Sometimes it makes you feel that the game is ~60% balanced to Axis favor, but other times; it also makes u feel that it's ~75% balanced for Allies favor!

So ya, there "might be" just a slight ~10% or ~15% overall favor to Allies at the moment.. but also; might not! As it's really hard to say in my opinion.
You see.. my point is; it can never be exact 50% to 50% balanced and I guess it will never be.
Though.. if it's hard to tell definitively, then it's actually somewhat almost balanced :) That's simply how I think about it currently.


totally agree (I think it's the first time :D )

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Warhawks97
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Re: Rifleman

Postby Warhawks97 » 10 Mar 2018, 21:12

Sukin-kot (SVT) wrote:That is new BK designed by Hawks :D Hang on, more awesome changes are coming (removing units from Axis docs and nerfing heavy tanks, coz they are too OP).


Yes. We had such great times with M1 Garands hitting shit and shooting slower than Bolt action K98 rifles. When Volks had much better rifle training than Rangers.
And when the 90 mm canon had i think less than 70% pen chance vs Tank IV H/J. And it was so lovely when the 57 mm AT gun loaded two seconds longer than Tank IV/Jagdpanther/Elephant.

Well. I miss these times as well.

Getting serious now
Ok, perhaps things are flawed and not perfect. Like the "i cant to anything wrong when starting with jeep" which has become a similiar meta as PE scout car before Boys AT became a deadly unit.
Also where will units get removed or heavies nerfed? Just bc guns with less damage and weak pen will shoot faster than powerfull guns as compensation? Was that your point here?

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MarKr
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Re: Rifleman

Postby MarKr » 11 Mar 2018, 08:23

Panzer-Lehr-Division wrote:Hey, just a quick question *i had a big break before this new patch came out so i dont really know" can someone freaking tell me what is wrong with rifleman?, did they start to eat their spinach? also wth is with this cheap but overomgwtfbbq deadly allie Units now?. isn't it enough that sappers are 6 man of popeyes?, all i see now if everyone playing inf doc or armor and just win with their single rifleman spamm, it was pretty much okay before! now you see popeye u.s engineers and rambo rifleman taking head to head with assault grenadiers, and don't make me start talking about riflenades..i would love start talking about the nerf, uff i mean "specialized" future doctrine change for axis, but thats a different subject.

Just a few questions:
1) What does "6 men of popeyes" mean?
2) How do you fight riflemen?
3) Could you please start talking about riflenades and problems connected to them?
4) How it "was pretty much okay before"? You mean when Riflemen had accuracy of a hypothermic Ray Charley and at the same time fired slower than any Axis soldier with bolt-action rifle? I mean....I quess it was fine for the Axis because they could wipe their ass with Allies any time but was it really "fine" from objective point of view?
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Tormoz
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Re: Rifleman

Postby Tormoz » 11 Mar 2018, 14:22

I (tormoz, zadoff, untermensch) and andrusha have probably 20 games in 2vs2 vs wurf and lehr in this month, and overall we play alot.
We have 90% win rate as allies! and i wanna say its easy, easy and funny to win or lose.
Playing as axis vs pro, its painfull, losing something critically, we have wins, but its more like hard work.
Its like playing dark souls... there you die if make 1-2 mistakes.
Vs best allies players like Illa and bidenet, i think nearly imposible win as axis in 2vs2.

I play USA (all 3 docs, but mosly inf) Andrusha play mostly RAF, but sometimes RA.
As axis i play Terror, but sometimes allies push so hard, so blitz necessary to survive in early game.
Def probably not bad overall, but... nothing to push later, but enemy can't rush you, i don't like this.
Andrusha play luft mostly, but sometimes blitz.

Lehr and wurf play luft, se and terror probably.
If they take 2 PE, and do nothing in early game, probably gg, soon or late.
Most scary its Terror+luft, they are can survive, and later, much later have power to win.
Allies have power win in early, midle and late.

Who wanna play 2vs2?) lehr want delete blitz after all this games.
Warhawk maybe stop talking? go play!

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MarKr
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Re: Rifleman

Postby MarKr » 11 Mar 2018, 14:57

Might I ask why did you say this?
Tormoz wrote:Warhawk maybe stop talking? go play!

Because Hawks gave some arguments to support his point of view and you simply said "shut up" (not literary but you know what I mean). So really, how were the old Riflemen "OK" when they had accuracy worse than Volks and they fired slower than Volks? Riflemen were only good for capping and building stuff, which is not really enough for a combat infantry. Also BARs have been like this for ages and nobody said a single word about them, now they are OP even when they were not touched at all? :?

Same goes for the 90mm guns, as he mentioned it. I would REALLY love to see what people would say if Tigers/Panthers had less than 70% chance to penetrate Shermans and like 30% chance to Penetrate Pershings/Churchills (that used to be the situation with Pershing vs Tiger/Panther). Pershing had no role in the game, now it does. I can understand that people cried because now Armor doctrine actually got a reliable counter to Tigers and Panthers but (if you try to look at least a little bit objectively) was it really a change for worse?
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Commissar
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Re: Rifleman

Postby Commissar » 11 Mar 2018, 14:59

I'm Agree with Tormoz totally

you all do not confirm your words with anything, all your words about the fact that the game is balanced are unsubstantiated. the only way to understand what is really happening in the game is to get the developers to play PVP with good players, but that will never happen. In this regard, the stupid changes continue in the direction of destroying the so very weak balance of the game.

Edit by MarKr: Posts merged. Next time, please use the "Edit post" function.

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MarKr
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Re: Rifleman

Postby MarKr » 11 Mar 2018, 16:01

Hello Commissar and thanks for the input.

We all know the "devs don't play, they don't understand" argument and I sadi many times that it is not that easy. But if you like, then I will play PvP with the "good players", they will beat me no matter what I do and so I will want to buff everything because my experience will be "I cannot win, so my favorite stuff needs buff" - how does that sound? :D

Anyway, I don't need to play to raise a simple questions:
1) BARs were not changed in last 20+ patches but suddenly they are a problem? It doesn't seem weird to you?
2) Before the changes to 90mm guns, what was the role of Pershings and Jacksons? The gun was the "highest" caliber the US had and yet it could not reliably penetrate even PIV H/J. So basically Pesthings were a bit better but overpriced Shermans, Jacksons were a bit better and overpriced Hellcats. Please tell me where I'm wrong.
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Commissar
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Re: Rifleman

Postby Commissar » 11 Mar 2018, 16:05

I have nothing against rifles and BARs at all. I'm talking about the balance in general. I probably need to create a new topic on the forum.

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Re: Rifleman

Postby MarKr » 11 Mar 2018, 16:10

Ahh, ok, feel free to do so.
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Tormoz
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Re: Rifleman

Postby Tormoz » 11 Mar 2018, 16:30

Pershing and bars okay for my.
Bad what rifles have vet 2 at 10 kils, and they are overpowered with that.

Not so much about rifles in replay, but sometimes they kill luft so easy, feels like 6 50Cal squad.
Replay reflect good that i speaking about earlier.
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Tiger1996
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Re: Rifleman

Postby Tiger1996 » 11 Mar 2018, 18:20

Commissar wrote:the only way to understand what is really happening in the game is to get the developers to play PVP with good players, but that will never happen.

It just happened :P Me and Kr0noZ have a surprise for you then :D Maybe tomorrow it's published publicly for everyone to watch ^^

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Kr0noZ
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Re: Rifleman

Postby Kr0noZ » 11 Mar 2018, 18:23

God dammit Tiger xD
"Normal people belive... if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Engineers believe... if it ain't broke, it doesn't have enough features yet."
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Warhawks97
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Re: Rifleman

Postby Warhawks97 » 11 Mar 2018, 18:46

A bit off topic but:

Ive downloaded few games claiming something OP on allied side etc. But most of them are played at duclair. I stopped playing this map years ago bc its kind of always the same game. On this map Meta is everything for both sides.

Also on this map the early game is the most important part. The US changes affected exactly these first 10 mins of gameplay. Let it be M1 Garand, 57 mm HT (or for the brits boys AT).

I would like to see some long replays with forth and backs. And not just one side going forward right from start bc of how the map is made, teams are put together or simple small mistakes which quickly decide the game.

From what i see in replays and streams is that allied have been boosted and are generally strong in the early game and that brits and US have a better harmony since they arent so mirrored as axis are (in the early stages) with many surprise units and off maps (recce, inf off map). But if this is survived things can get easier for axis once they got some initative back. Esspecially US still suffers from regaining the initiative they got in the early stage once it got lost.

But 2 vs 2 and esspecially maps like duclair are early game maps. The guy winning the first engagments usually winning the game. Not always but its a huge factor.

Why are many of the new maps so rarley played. I mean we have got so many nice 2 vs 2 maps or 3 vs 3. Why is Duclair (not even a BK map btw) still "The map".


Another thing that attracted my attention is that the "Allied OP" part mostly comes from brits. And whenever someone wanted to prove "allied OP" it ended up in "Brits only" or a mix of 2 brits: 1 US or 3 brits: 1 US with at least one RA player. They basically just confirm what i say over and over again.

The US have got for the first time in history of BK something that made them unique. And thats the M1 Garand. In all other aspects they have either been just a meat shield for the high valuable brits units or some sort of "cheap WH copy" in regards to their units. Or they had something special which didnt provide anything special or something brits couldnt do (speaking of the 90 mm which is nothing as an american 17 pdr or even worse than that). The M1 garand is now the first thing i can think of over many years which can make people really say: "I play US bc of this unique thing".

Some come up now with AB now but AB has just been the first working US doctrine. But in fact there was nothing that made them really unqiue except that you could use five 101st squads or 6 hendheld AT weapons in squad.

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Shanks
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Re: Rifleman

Postby Shanks » 12 Mar 2018, 11:44

Tormoz wrote:Pershing and bars okay for my.
Bad what rifles have vet 2 at 10 kils, and they are overpowered with that.

Not so much about rifles in replay, but sometimes they kill luft so easy, feels like 6 50Cal squad.
Replay reflect good that i speaking about earlier.



the riflemen are not "OP", these repetitions only show, how bad the Axis (lehr + wurf) played, I will not explain everything they did wrong, but I will say that starting with cars (PE) is a double weapon edge, and you must take care not to lose them easily!.........also 2 PE and did nothing, sorry ... I do not say that they are bad players ... but definitely this is not all the power of axis!

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Panzer-Lehr-Division
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Re: Rifleman

Postby Panzer-Lehr-Division » 12 Mar 2018, 12:08

Shanks wrote:
Tormoz wrote:Pershing and bars okay for my.
Bad what rifles have vet 2 at 10 kils, and they are overpowered with that.

Not so much about rifles in replay, but sometimes they kill luft so easy, feels like 6 50Cal squad.
Replay reflect good that i speaking about earlier.



the riflemen are not "OP", these repetitions only show, how bad the Axis (lehr + wurf) played, I will not explain everything they did wrong, but I will say that starting with cars (PE) is a double weapon edge, and you must take care not to lose them easily!.........also 2 PE and did nothing, sorry ... I do not say that they are bad players ... but definitely this is not all the power of axis!


I wanna see you do better as pe against sniper/Boys/rifle and recce spamm

Edit: Dont Forget that cromwell rush brits love to do wich wich outrun paks *because you dont Need a fucking captain to build tanks*
SunZiom: but true is you`re only one man which i know who really know how play PE
CyberdyneModel101: you're unstoppable

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Shanks
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Re: Rifleman

Postby Shanks » 12 Mar 2018, 12:35

Panzer-Lehr-Division wrote:
Shanks wrote:
Tormoz wrote:Pershing and bars okay for my.
Bad what rifles have vet 2 at 10 kils, and they are overpowered with that.

Not so much about rifles in replay, but sometimes they kill luft so easy, feels like 6 50Cal squad.
Replay reflect good that i speaking about earlier.



the riflemen are not "OP", these repetitions only show, how bad the Axis (lehr + wurf) played, I will not explain everything they did wrong, but I will say that starting with cars (PE) is a double weapon edge, and you must take care not to lose them easily!.........also 2 PE and did nothing, sorry ... I do not say that they are bad players ... but definitely this is not all the power of axis!


I wanna see you do better as pe against sniper/Boys/rifle and recce spamm

Edit: Dont Forget that cromwell rush brits love to do wich wich outrun paks *because you dont Need a fucking captain to build tanks*




I will do it for you vs "pro players", just wait.....seriously, I respect you, I could say I learned a lot from you in 1v1, but you got used to always playing with wurf, in most cases vs new players ... this way you lose "your style", then you turn to face vs good players, and you make a post like this ... it should not be like that

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Devilfish
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Re: Rifleman

Postby Devilfish » 12 Mar 2018, 12:59

I've played several games with wurf against you guys (up to ten) and we have lost maybe 1-2 times. and you were allies almost all games.
"Only by admitting what we are can we get what we want"

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Commissar
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Re: Rifleman

Postby Commissar » 12 Mar 2018, 19:49

Devilfish wrote:I've played several games with wurf against you guys (up to ten) and we have lost maybe 1-2 times. and you were allies almost all games.

We are up to play some games more, if u want, yea, we did some mistakes and that's why we lose. Chat me, if u r up as well to get some fun vs allies power =)

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Re: Rifleman

Postby Tor » 13 Mar 2018, 10:41

Duclair funnist map in this mod, thats why all continue play duclair.
All know duclair good, so its always fair game.
I don't play new maps to much, but new maps feels strange, i pretty sure martinville unbalanced (for faction or side idk), and no one write something about that.
So if someone say something like "duclair not for bk mod map" go to hell.
One of this replays, probably best game i ever had, 15 min non stop action, my head cpu load at 100%.

I have no fun in 4vs4 at all, its so bored, and playing 2vs2 in 3vs3 maps same, thats point to moving units and wait, wait and wait, locking how they moving, wtf.
I have steel division and don't play because of that, i already tired of this in Wargame airland battle.


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