RE Doc?

Do you have a balancing problem or do you want to make a suggestion for the game? You are at the right place.
User avatar
Shanks
Posts: 361
Joined: 22 Nov 2016, 22:02

Re: RE Doc?

Postby Shanks » 08 Mar 2018, 19:37

@Markr....I think that the tree of doctrines of RE should be like this: the comet should be in the place of the "Achilles", and the Achilles, where is the "Comet", the serious idea, that the Comet is a priority in RE, not the Achilles, but in return, it would be obligatory to enable up to the churchil "95 mm", would be 5 CP in total, we could try it ... what do you think about this? ... by the way, I did not say "red" was at my favor


@Tiger 1996...the pershing is "armored", also the panther is "armored", and can not be destroyed by basic units in general, besides BK has many ways to pass an emplacement (for example bombing of infantry bk or infantry infiltration of bk ), if this strategy does not turn out, you can ask for artillery from "SE" or "TH" or "LUFT planes", very easy! ....and you would have many tanks (very good, by the way)... also, in my opinion, bk is very good, like now

User avatar
Tiger1996
Posts: 3573
Joined: 06 Dec 2014, 15:53
Location: I'm from Egypt, but I live in Qatar.
Contact:

Re: RE Doc?

Postby Tiger1996 » 08 Mar 2018, 20:33

As I've described on my last post.. they are more armored and therefore they cost more... Comet is available about the same time but not armored, therefore it costs less! So; if it's already cheaper then I believe it doesn't really need to be earlier available as well.
And btw there is something u should keep in mind, all doctrines in Bk Mod have 30 total command points, so you can't simply remove command points from the Comet in order to allow it earlier without delaying something else in return! And as I clarified on my previous post, I don't think Comet could be ever available at 4 CP for the several reasons I mentioned.. but I think it's fine at 5 CP at least.
Perhaps 1 CP from the Comet could be taken away, and in return.. the "AT Mines" unlock would be 1 CP later maybe.
Additionally, on my previous post I also pointed out that the IVJ should be a bit more expensive in Blitz doc... Comet should be also unlimited.

Blitz doc would need some arty support, yes.. that's my point! Just like how RE doc might need some arty support from other RA doc team-mates.
Terror is very weak mid game, that's why Blitz will need to support it with off-map support call-in as well as IVH tanks with the help of trades...
And later the Terror doc player would have to support the Blitz doc player with Stuka and SturmTiger in late game.
So, the Axis docs aren't completely self-dependent either!
=======================================================================
Currently in my humble opinion, the overall game balance is very good in Bk Mod actually, just with tiny further changes required.
Axis docs might be more versatile for sure.. but they are still less flexible than the specialized Allied docs which are dominant in a particular field...
That's 1 reason why I may not be very excited to the planned Axis docs re-work, despite that I'm clearly interested in adding new units and re-working the docs. However, it took us too many years to finally reach this "fine" state of balance! Therefore I'm honestly quite reluctant about the docs rework.
Accordingly, I hope that the rework will not be enforced officially anytime soon without extreme testing (at least 1 year of pvp testing) with possible opportunity to modify it several times too if needed, based on the provided feedback.

User avatar
Shanks
Posts: 361
Joined: 22 Nov 2016, 22:02

Re: RE Doc?

Postby Shanks » 08 Mar 2018, 21:27

Tiger1996 wrote:And btw there is something u should keep in mind, all doctrines in Bk Mod have 30 total command points, so you can't simply remove command points from the Comet in order to allow it earlier without delaying something else in return!



Could you read what I wrote in my last post, before writing this ????

and terror, it is an almost unstoppable doctrine! ... you know what is your problem ?... you never use inf ( rather, you do not get used to it, "only sniper") , it seems that you think that everything is only about tanks and to compare all the allied doctrines vs BK!


example of terror doctrine vs pro players
Attachments
4p_rails and metal.2018-03-04.15-04-47.rec
(1.19 MiB) Downloaded 10 times
relic00146.jpg

User avatar
Redgaarden
Posts: 322
Joined: 16 Jan 2015, 03:58

Re: RE Doc?

Postby Redgaarden » 08 Mar 2018, 22:30

Comet is just an acillies without stealth. I cant really see the difference between them anymore. But then again. I havent used the comet yet. By that I mean I got one and it got trashed and never build it again. I will try to use it a little differently now. But I still dont know for what though. Im pretty tired of suiciding units against supperior axis tanks or infantry. If its new dodge abilty is actually useful. Ill use it to its intended role to mitigate damage since the churchill is incompitent for that.

Edit:Sorry for the sass. But I dont see why the comet or churchills are so important when acillies can do everything.
Last edited by Redgaarden on 08 Mar 2018, 23:24, edited 1 time in total.
Rifles are not for fighting. They are for building!

User avatar
Shanks
Posts: 361
Joined: 22 Nov 2016, 22:02

Re: RE Doc?

Postby Shanks » 08 Mar 2018, 23:07

Redgaarden wrote:Comet is just an acillies without stealth. I cant really see the difference between them anymore. But then again. I havent used the comet yet. By that I mean I got one and it got trashed and never build it again. I will try to use it a little differently now. But I still dont know for what though. Im pretty tired of suiciding units against supperior axis tanks or infantry. If its new dodge abilty is actually useful. Ill use it to its intended role to mitigate damage since the churchill is incompitent for that.



good luck with that! hahahahahaaaa

User avatar
mofetagalactica
Posts: 199
Joined: 30 Jan 2017, 11:15

Re: RE Doc?

Postby mofetagalactica » 08 Mar 2018, 23:33

It is true that the new comet its just an achilles with just a liiitle bit better armor, it dosn't bring anithing special to the doc its just something "cool" but wathever right now RE doctrine dosn't seem to be reaching to his potential things would maybe change after the "specializated" changes to axis doctrines.

User avatar
Warhawks97
Posts: 2737
Joined: 23 Nov 2014, 21:45
Location: Germany

Re: RE Doc?

Postby Warhawks97 » 08 Mar 2018, 23:43

mofetagalactica wrote:It is true that the new comet its just an achilles with just a liiitle bit better armor, it dosn't bring anithing special to the doc its just something "cool" but wathever right now RE doctrine dosn't seem to be reaching to his potential things would maybe change after the "specializated" changes to axis doctrines.



It has a lot more HP. It can basically stand a panther shot. At the other hand even a stug or Panzer IV can make a oneshot by using AP and triggering max damage.
Things again would look differently when AP´s wouldnt boost damage. If this would be removed a panther wouldnt actually oneshot a comet anymore.
Just as information.

Hetzer with camo is a different thing though.

User avatar
Shanks
Posts: 361
Joined: 22 Nov 2016, 22:02

Re: RE Doc?

Postby Shanks » 09 Mar 2018, 11:14

MarKr wrote:I am not really against this...where would the point that you take away from Comet be moved?


if you forgot about me, here is the answer markr

Shanks wrote:@Markr....I think that the tree of doctrines of RE should be like this: the comet should be in the place of the "Achilles", and the Achilles, where is the "Comet", the serious idea, that the Comet is a priority in RE, not the Achilles, but in return, it would be obligatory to enable up to the churchil "95 mm", would be 5 CP in total to get to the comet , we could try it ... what do you think about this? ... by the way, I did not say "red" was at my favor

User avatar
Panzer-Lehr-Division
Posts: 457
Joined: 12 Dec 2014, 14:03

Re: RE Doc?

Postby Panzer-Lehr-Division » 09 Mar 2018, 11:53

Warhawks97 wrote:
mofetagalactica wrote:It is true that the new comet its just an achilles with just a liiitle bit better armor, it dosn't bring anithing special to the doc its just something "cool" but wathever right now RE doctrine dosn't seem to be reaching to his potential things would maybe change after the "specializated" changes to axis doctrines.



It has a lot more HP. It can basically stand a panther shot. At the other hand even a stug or Panzer IV can make a oneshot by using AP and triggering max damage.
Things again would look differently when AP´s wouldnt boost damage. If this would be removed a panther wouldnt actually oneshot a comet anymore.
Just as information.

Hetzer with camo is a different thing though.


Are you sure? i remember my comets got 1 hit killed by panzer 4 infront and they didn't use ap, also my comet was overrepiared had an commander and command tank behind it.


Edit: It happened twice in one game, p4 had no veterancy no tank commander, alsoooooooooo it happened in a different match too
SunZiom: but true is you`re only one man which i know who really know how play PE
CyberdyneModel101: you're unstoppable

User avatar
Tiger1996
Posts: 3573
Joined: 06 Dec 2014, 15:53
Location: I'm from Egypt, but I live in Qatar.
Contact:

Re: RE Doc?

Postby Tiger1996 » 09 Mar 2018, 15:05

Comet might be feeling a bit "un-needed" sometimes but not because it's useless.. only because the Achilles are currently over-performing with abilities such as "hit and run tactics" which is going to be removed, but also in addition to HE rounds... As I never really understood why Achilles should ever have HE rounds, Hetzers for example don't have it.. even the M10 Wolverine doesn't.

RE doc weakness is to be countered by SE doc with 210mm rockets and continuous long range arty.. but this doesn't have anything to do with Comets!
2nd weakness for RE doc as I mentioned before.. is to be out-numbered by Blitz doc thanks to trades, off-map support call-in and early IVJ but again this doesn't have anything to do with Comets being useless or not! And every doctrine in the game should have some weakness points, and I honestly can't see many further weaknesses for RE doc except the few things already mentioned, I mean that the strength points of the doctrine are more than the weak points on the other hand.. so it's just fine overall.

User avatar
Jalis
Posts: 362
Joined: 25 Nov 2014, 04:55
Location: Canada

Re: RE Doc?

Postby Jalis » 09 Mar 2018, 18:37

Tiger1996 wrote: As I never really understood why Achilles should ever have HE rounds, Hetzers for example don't have it.. even the M10 Wolverine doesn't.




Explanation may be historical. Yes old dev team had knowledge with these bullshit :lol: . (it is why I think pseudo mistakes are intentionals).

German th like jpziv had only a dotation in pzgr39 and 40 but no HE. HE was not their job.

it was a bit different for allies. target was rather rare for allies. For exemple the first Sherman bataillon equipped with 76 mm gun was operational in France around august 1944 iirc. In December logistic service data showed 95 per cent shells fired by this bataillon was HE rounds.

Germans panzer allies tanks saw were too often already wrecks. Usual cause was scuttle by crews due to mechanical breakdown or ran out fuel. It is fairly possible even allies TD had HE round to possible support infantry because they had not so much work on their primary purpose.
At least for USA for a TD like the hellcat a quater of shell were HE rounds. I have no data for brits, but like preys were rare for both, their is no reason John Bull acted differently.

User avatar
Shanks
Posts: 361
Joined: 22 Nov 2016, 22:02

Re: RE Doc?

Postby Shanks » 09 Mar 2018, 20:14

Tiger1996 wrote:RE doc weakness is to be countered by SE doc with 210mm rockets and continuous long range arty.. but this doesn't have anything to do with Comets!
2nd weakness for RE doc as I mentioned before.. is to be out-numbered by Blitz doc thanks to trades, off-map support call-in and early IVJ but again this doesn't have anything to do with Comets being useless or not!



if SE and BK can beat RE, of A or B form, it means that all the other doctrine of the axis could win vs. RE..is logical ...it's relatively easy for win VS RE, so, the comet it is important , and since they're going to do the achilles (nerf), the comet should be in RE, as I put it in my last post, because neither will the armor rise!

the planes fell on my infantry in recovery and my base ... you saw it....I can also upload videos where bk doc defeats RE easily, as well as you do it with RE vs. average players :D
Last edited by Shanks on 09 Mar 2018, 21:44, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Tiger1996
Posts: 3573
Joined: 06 Dec 2014, 15:53
Location: I'm from Egypt, but I live in Qatar.
Contact:

Re: RE Doc?

Postby Tiger1996 » 09 Mar 2018, 21:05

@Shanks
As you can see on my most recent video.. the Comet is working! Even successfully bounced off IVJ 75mm shell. And 6 CP is not much for the Comet...
Not to mention that throughout the game we lost together on Duclair against BEREN and MEFISTO, I was actually still able to field so many tanks.. and even killed many airplanes just with 2 Bofor and 1 Crusader! We lost it only because it was apparently not your best day as infantry doctrine :P

User avatar
Shanks
Posts: 361
Joined: 22 Nov 2016, 22:02

Re: RE Doc?

Postby Shanks » 09 Mar 2018, 21:44

Tiger1996 wrote:@Shanks
As you can see on my most recent video.. the Comet is working! Even successfully bounced off IVJ 75mm shell. And 6 CP is not much for the Comet...
Not to mention that throughout the game we lost together on Duclair against BEREN and MEFISTO, I was actually still able to field so many tanks.. and even killed many airplanes just with 2 Bofor and 1 Crusader! We lost it only because it was apparently not your best day as infantry doctrine :P


I can also upload videos where bk doc defeats RE easily, as well as you do it with RE vs. average players :D .......and in the game where I used doc infantry, the planes fell straight to my withdrawal point and destroyed my extructure tank ... you saw it ... maybe bad luck.....also berem planes destroyed my jumbo, and the only thing you did was to use a churchill 95 mm + firefly vs 4 tanks that you could not kill :D :D if I remember correctly, you killed 0 tanks, and I 4 or 5 tanks, being a doctrine of infantry, I still have the video if you want to see it! :D :D :D

User avatar
Tiger1996
Posts: 3573
Joined: 06 Dec 2014, 15:53
Location: I'm from Egypt, but I live in Qatar.
Contact:

Re: RE Doc?

Postby Tiger1996 » 09 Mar 2018, 22:30

Shanks wrote:I can also upload videos where bk doc defeats RE easily, as well as you do it with RE vs. average players

Well, but still those same "average players" won against me and you 1 time... I know u had bad luck, but then I think they are at least above average!
And actually I had overall better kill/loss ratio than you on the final scoreboard of that game.. but regardless, here my point is; the Comet is not "useless" as you are trying to convince everyone here. Not to mention that I had enough command points and resources to unlock and deploy one 95mm Churchill, as well as 3 Comets in just 40 minutes 2vs2 game, beside Crusaders and Bofors too! Also despite we were losing.

User avatar
Shanks
Posts: 361
Joined: 22 Nov 2016, 22:02

Re: RE Doc?

Postby Shanks » 09 Mar 2018, 23:12

Tiger1996 wrote:
Shanks wrote:I can also upload videos where bk doc defeats RE easily, as well as you do it with RE vs. average players

Well, but still those same "average players" won against me and you 1 time... I know u had bad luck, but then I think they are at least above average!
And actually I had overall better kill/loss ratio than you on the final scoreboard of that game.. but regardless, here my point is; the Comet is not "useless" as you are trying to convince everyone here. Not to mention that I had enough command points and resources to unlock and deploy one 95mm Churchill, as well as 3 Comets in just 40 minutes 2vs2 game, beside Crusaders and Bofors too! Also despite we were losing.



let's leave behind our bad defeats hahaha ...... now ... what do you think about my last suggestion regarding the comet? ... will be 5 CP as you like

Shanks wrote:
MarKr wrote:I am not really against this...where would the point that you take away from Comet be moved?


if you forgot about me, here is the answer markr

Shanks wrote:@Markr....I think that the tree of doctrines of RE should be like this: the comet should be in the place of the "Achilles", and the Achilles, where is the "Comet", the serious idea, that the Comet is a priority in RE, not the Achilles, but in return, it would be obligatory to enable up to the churchil "95 mm", would be 5 CP in total to get to the comet , we could try it ... what do you think about this? ... by the way, I did not say "red" was at my favor

User avatar
Tiger1996
Posts: 3573
Joined: 06 Dec 2014, 15:53
Location: I'm from Egypt, but I live in Qatar.
Contact:

Re: RE Doc?

Postby Tiger1996 » 09 Mar 2018, 23:35

I'm OK with Comet at 5 CP but also at the same time I don't demand it, since I believe it's still fine at 6 CP anyway.. but as I said, I'm fine with 5 CP too.

User avatar
Shanks
Posts: 361
Joined: 22 Nov 2016, 22:02

Re: RE Doc?

Postby Shanks » 10 Mar 2018, 01:14

I want to explain my idea better:: churchill(1CP)--churchill 95mm(2CP)--comet (above/2CP)-----Canadian tank (left / top/2CP)---firefly(above/rigth/2CP)---achilles(above/rigth/2CP)--- or churchill avre(in front as always)

but for this, it would be obligatory, unlock the churchill 95 mm, which means 5 CP direct, until arriving at the comet


Return to “Balancing & Suggestions”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest