Airborne

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Warhawks97
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Airborne

Post by Warhawks97 »

I´d like to put some suggestions here and first i start with the 101st.

101st:
Its not a secret that the m1 crabine is the worst weapon in that game (accuracy, damage per bullet etc). I am asking me for what i pay the 450 MP. Right now its not more than 450 MP with two rather bad AT weapons. The 101st can become effective later in hands of pros and with like 5 lmg upgrades and when keeping them alive for a long time. I would suggest here two changes:

1. reduce drop cost to 400.
2. Instead reccoilless rifles in their crates maybe BAR and instead BAR reccoilles rifles upgrade? Most of the time i need them against inf and fighting against inf. I use only one 101st that takes all the reccoiless. prob here is that if you drop them behind enemie lines the enemie will take those weapons and the "101st AT squad" with 5 or 6 reccoiless is maybe not available to pick those two up from the squad which dropped behind the lines. The 101st would actually get BAR´s in their drop and reccoilles available as upgrade such as johnson. The 82nd would be the "ranger" for Airborne drop and the 101st the "rifle squad" of AB with two BAR´s. They then could fit better in their role as anti inf unit.

3. The P-47 Bomb drop. Its hard to hit tanks effectively with it. Its actually usefull against emplacments but vs tanks it sucks. Esspecially as most tanks survive the bomb. Drop cost to like 150 ammo since it has the same role as the stuka which cost 125 ammo but same usefull against emplacments. This bomb drop should also fly in with the final ability when defensive emplacments, guns etc are in the bombing area. I think its the main purpose of such bomb drop and of such an bombing ability and not only when tanks are in that radius.

4. Put HMG and mortar crew unlock together. Add this rocket run for the free slot: http://blitzkrieg-mod.de/board/topic/48 ... pabilites/
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Re: Airborne

Post by Sukin-kot (SVT) »

Agree with all exept rocket run, we already have this bloody thing in Raf doc, and i honestly hated it all the time, glad that now it can be prevented by 2 good placed AA. Seriously, wtf that ability was? 200 ammo click to kill unit which might cost 1740 mp, 210 fuel, 125 ammo (talking about kt). Thunderbolt not that bad actually, direct hit 100% kills any tank exept JT, but this stupid bug with no damage sometimes is annoying, ye, i think 175 ammo will be fair price. Moreover you have there 300 ammo patrool, which in my opinion the most devastating ability in game and will clear the area from any units, and its very fun ability, hilarious how all enemie units start to move in panic and still dieing, best moment for atack). You probably can break through any sector if combine this ability with airboen units and usa tanks.

As for AT, id better prefer to see Hellcat in this doc, than insta killing rocket run. I think airstrikes are already ok (only lower price for bombs needed), better to add hellcat and passive camo for all air units.

I also read the tread in old forum, you must be joking? Auto aim Rocket runs + Bombs + strafe in 300 ammo ability? :D thats kinda overkill for everything.

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Re: Airborne

Post by MarKr »

I remember the conversation. I even added the rocket run in my version of the mod and I must say that it is redundant. The effect is almost the same so why create another ability with same effect?

1. reduce drop cost to 400.
2. Instead reccoilless rifles....
3. The P-47 Bomb drop.....
4. Put HMG and mortar crew unlock together.

1) Might work but in combination with what I write below it might make them even more cost effective.
2) The problem is that they really do become dangerous when vetted. They die quite fast because they don't have very good weaponry which in combination with working behind the lines often gets them killed. Furthermore buying weapon upgrades for every squad is quite ammo consuming and ammo is later needed for taking out heavies. If they get two BARs right from the bat, you spare 90 ammo (I think it is 45 for one, right?) and get weapons that will increase their survivability by a lot... It's hard to say if it wouldn't make them OP in the long run...
3) It's true that it is quite expensive and not very effective against vehices unless they cannot move. So they are usually used against emplacements and those can now be more reliably defended by AAs. So some price drop wouldn't hurt.
Btw: It is possible to make the final ability target buildings...since it usually doesn't hit vehicles, maybe it could be added.
4) For the reasons stated above I must say no, but maybe the Mortar drop could be independant on HMG drop. Somebody suggested it already and I think it is a good idea.

Moreover you have there 300 ammo patrool, which in my opinion the most devastating ability in game and will clear the area from any units, and its very fun ability, hilarious how all enemie units start to move in panic and still dieing, best moment for atack).

The thing is that since they fire on the ground,players just move away and you end up with killing almost nothing for 300 ammo. Well, yeah, you create the panic you talked about but that's hardly the purpose of this ability. If they adjusted aim the price would have to go up and probably even then it would be too strong.

As for AT, id better prefer to see Hellcat in this doc, than insta killing rocket run. I think airstrikes are already ok (only lower price for bombs needed), better to add hellcat and passive camo for all air units.

Maybe AB could bet Hellcat as a more expensive reward unit for M10.
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Re: Airborne

Post by crimax »

Just a little note to this discussion:

The air bombing and the air strike are two different things.
The first is intended to destroy emplacements, buildings, or stationary units.
The second is used to attack mobile units and tanks.

In theory an air bombing, used in the wrong way, could not be effective, and this is absolutely normal. Same in the other case.

The air bombing (carpet bombing) is effective on wide areas.
A tank is essentially a box made of steel, in this case was/are used different weapons than bombs.
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Re: Airborne

Post by MarKr »

Well, yeah, but for in-game purposes that would mean that you would have to create an ability that fires rockets, these rockets would be set to high penetration agaist vehicles. So far so good.
But how will it differ from bombs? Lower damage against building but higher against vehicles? Could be. Lower AoE so the rocket would need direct hit or near hit? In this case it will be very difficult to actually hit a vehicle since players tend to move them around when they notice a plane incoming. If you leave the AoE same as for bombs then there really will be little difference between bombing run and rocket strike. Yes, the damage/penetration could be different against different targets but I can already hear the comments:
"I sent a bombing run and it hit near a position where opponent had an emplacement and tank next to each other. The emplacement lost about 3/4 of HP and tank barely took 1/5 of HP!!! WTF?!?!"

So while in real life the difference of using of bombs and rockets against different targets is important for the game purposes it really is redundant. At least from my point of view.
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Tony_Frost
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Re: Airborne

Post by Tony_Frost »

Just buff M1 carbine, that will give 101st a buff from the start to fight well against at least volks, and remove the Johnson LMG because that weapon almost never (or never at all) used on a western front and was replaced by BARs.

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Re: Airborne

Post by Wake »

What's the difference between the Johnson LMG and the BAR? Both of them cost 45 munition but it seems that one is distinctly better than the other.
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Re: Airborne

Post by Warhawks97 »

MarKr wrote:I remember the conversation. I even added the rocket run in my version of the mod and I must say that it is redundant. The effect is almost the same so why create another ability with same effect?

1. reduce drop cost to 400.
2. Instead reccoilless rifles....
3. The P-47 Bomb drop.....
4. Put HMG and mortar crew unlock together.

1) Might work but in combination with what I write below it might make them even more cost effective.
2) The problem is that they really do become dangerous when vetted. They die quite fast because they don't have very good weaponry which in combination with working behind the lines often gets them killed. Furthermore buying weapon upgrades for every squad is quite ammo consuming and ammo is later needed for taking out heavies. If they get two BARs right from the bat, you spare 90 ammo (I think it is 45 for one, right?) and get weapons that will increase their survivability by a lot... It's hard to say if it wouldn't make them OP in the long run...
3) It's true that it is quite expensive and not very effective against vehices unless they cannot move. So they are usually used against emplacements and those can now be more reliably defended by AAs. So some price drop wouldn't hurt.
Btw: It is possible to make the final ability target buildings...since it usually doesn't hit vehicles, maybe it could be added.
4) For the reasons stated above I must say no, but maybe the Mortar drop could be independant on HMG drop. Somebody suggested it already and I think it is a good idea.

Moreover you have there 300 ammo patrool, which in my opinion the most devastating ability in game and will clear the area from any units, and its very fun ability, hilarious how all enemie units start to move in panic and still dieing, best moment for atack).

The thing is that since they fire on the ground,players just move away and you end up with killing almost nothing for 300 ammo. Well, yeah, you create the panic you talked about but that's hardly the purpose of this ability. If they adjusted aim the price would have to go up and probably even then it would be too strong.

As for AT, id better prefer to see Hellcat in this doc, than insta killing rocket run. I think airstrikes are already ok (only lower price for bombs needed), better to add hellcat and passive camo for all air units.

Maybe AB could bet Hellcat as a more expensive reward unit for M10.


101st dangerous when vetted.... that rules for all units. The 101st can be mostly only played if ONLY the 101st is used and spending all res into them and use the advantage of the larger unit limit. But that mostly means that the AB player must get at least 3 or 4 of them. One as AT squad and the others equiped with endless lmgs. Ressources for anything else are only available in very late game when 101st masses starts killing enemies effectively and using cheaper reinforcment advantage. For player that doesnt like to blobb only 101st and which want to use all the other stuff of that doc (maybe pack howitzer, calli jeep, other drops, maybe even tanks) the 101st is a waste of res. Even if 101st blobb is later effective they will cost at least (3 squads) 1350 mp and up to 300-400 ammo (2 squads with lmg)+ the high losses against any axis inf unit in early game. Alone they are worse than a ranger squad and thus for me not worse 400 mp. They are basically Rifle squads which are dropping from the sky just that rifles have better basic equipment. The advantage compared to rifles is that they can be upgraded with more lmgs and that they can reinforce eveywhere. But rifles with 4 BAR´s would be same dangerous.

And two BARs for free while the rest has still the M1 carabine wouldnt make them OP lmao. Commandos get lmgs for free and have either good long range rifles or MPi´s. Luftwaffe lmg34 (75 ammo) and 5 G43 which would be worth what? 100 ammo? Or Regiment 5 with schreck (75 ammo) and 5 very Powerfull FG42 that work very well at every distance. But two BAR´s in the dropp (instead reccoiless) would make them OP..... The Reccoilles would be upgradable also near HQ for about 40 ammo each.


The rocket ability isnt that strong. Right now most airplanes get shot down anyway (and even before they got shot down effectively by Ostwind). And bombs do not insta kill...... KT,JT, even JP, elephant take two easily. Often three hits are needed. In one game both bombs did not even damage a Grille and i used the bomber patrol on 3 enemie Jagpanzer IV in stationary fire mode and non died. The best that happend was a main gun destroyed after 2 or 3 hits against a IV/48. And why cant the bomber patrol not be used against bunkers and other emplacments as well? Not base buildings but at least defense things. The Bomber patrole is mostly effective against an immobilized tank but thats all. And yeah, maybe some panic....You could replace it with propaganda ability... would have the same effect if not better.

And about rockets i dont see a prob. AB has nothing powerfull against some axis heavies (RAF has at least 17 pounder). And No other western allied airplane and faction used so many rockets as US did. They developed several air to ground rockets resulting in the very often user HVAR. And its not click to kill. Sometimes tanks survive that run, the airplane gets shot down, the unit moves away etc. So it needs some skills.



About the Johnson. People want it removed for historical reasons but for me it seems that Johnson is better than BAR. Can you have a look on booth weapons? would be nice.


And whats the M1 carabine good for? it sucks on all ranges.....



@crimax and wake: Rockets differed in aoe etc. The british rocket had the largest HE filler followed by HVAR. But anyway, it actually works that way. Rockets once destroyed base buildings, emplacments and even bunkers in a single run just like bombs. That got changed. Now rockets arent so good against emplacment as bombs. Maybe "study" the in game used bombs and rockets. Of what i know is that the Brits rocket has 5,4- 27 kg warhead (idk how much explosive). HVAR 20 kg warhead and wiki says 3,4 kg TNT. Comparing to 150 mm nebelwerfer which had 2,4 kg TNT. So maybe Brits rocket have crazy AOE in game.

Also as crimax said different weapons got used against tanks and stationary stuff. Rockets against vehicles due to savlo fire, more accurate aiming and better pen chance. Bombs less accurate but much better AOE which doesnt help against tanks as those are a cage of steel. I wouldnt mind if a bomb would blow up an emplacment while the tank next to it would receive low damage. What the Bomb could do more often with their AOE is secondary damage to tanks (gun, gunner, treads damaged mainly).

Rockets simply actualy 100% pen chance, good damge but less AOE. The AB bomber patrole would be simply against everything. Clearing an area of just every resistant that defensive stuff belongs to it. Ambushed units would still be able to survive.
Last edited by Warhawks97 on 16 Jan 2015, 15:08, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Airborne

Post by Sukin-kot (SVT) »

MarKr wrote:I remember the conversation. I even added the rocket run in my version of the mod and I must say that it is redundant. The effect is almost the same so why create another ability with same effect?


Moreover you have there 300 ammo patrool, which in my opinion the most devastating ability in game and will clear the area from any units, and its very fun ability, hilarious how all enemie units start to move in panic and still dieing, best moment for atack).


I dont actually agree, usually it kills a lot....at least when i use it.

@Warhawks. Im just strongly against any new "click to kill" abilities, we have enough of them + huge amount of different arty. Its making gameplay stupid and no fun. Wanna buff airborn? Ok, im all for it, but not in abilities way.

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Re: Airborne

Post by Warhawks97 »

Sukin-kot (SVT) wrote:
MarKr wrote:I remember the conversation. I even added the rocket run in my version of the mod and I must say that it is redundant. The effect is almost the same so why create another ability with same effect?


Moreover you have there 300 ammo patrool, which in my opinion the most devastating ability in game and will clear the area from any units, and its very fun ability, hilarious how all enemie units start to move in panic and still dieing, best moment for atack).


I dont actually agree, usually it kills a lot....at least when i use it.



Idk. I know that 2 bombers hit a IV/48 and only the main gun got damaged. The tank was not moving.
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Re: Airborne

Post by Sukin-kot (SVT) »

Yesterday you watched my Airborne game, i used thunderbolt twice. First it hited near tiger and took 90% health, second time it one hited tiger. I think there is just a bug with damage, its too randomized, sometimes really 0 even with direct hit.

@Mark. How do you like this idea: Mortar and HMG will be together in 1 unlock. Instead we ll have cheaper air weapons unlock ( 30-35 ammo instead 45).

Btw, i liked how wolf removed random weapon drop from rifles ( now it drops only when squad completely dead). Stormtroopers, grens, CQB, rangers, stormgrenadiers. 101s, infiltartion rangers are need exactly the same, because sometimes they dropping weapons even if only 1-2 men dead, what is really annoying.

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Re: Airborne

Post by Warhawks97 »

Sukin-kot (SVT) wrote:@Warhawks. Im just strongly against any new "click to kill" abilities, we have enough of them + huge amount of different arty. Its making gameplay stupid and no fun. Wanna buff airborn? Ok, im all for it, but not in abilities way.



OK. I think it would help if the 101st would be cheaper to drop. They are only effective in numbers so far (3 squads must have) which reduces options to play with other units. The 101st as it fighting with other units is pretty much a waste of res. Their default equipment is furthermore not better than watter pistols. So cost drop to 400 or even 380 and BAR´s instead reccoiless. The reccoilless as upgrade for 40 ammo each (4 can be purchased and repurchased if lost).

Add the "ability BAR" Markr once created as sample where they can swtch between normal and incendiary nades such as SE and Terror can and all the other stuff.

The off map mortar strike from 101st. I used it just yesterday but somehow did never hit even when enemie squad was not moving. I am used the accuracy and effectivness of the off map stormtooper leader squad which kills usually an entire squad if those is not moving with fast and accurate strikes. I dont expect the same but the shells strike often far away from target area.
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Re: Airborne

Post by MarKr »

Btw, i liked how wolf removed random weapon drop from rifles ( now it drops only when squad completely dead). Stormtroopers, grens, CQB, rangers, stormgrenadiers. 101s, infiltartion rangers are need exactly the same, because sometimes they dropping weapons even if only 1-2 men dead, what is really annoying.

I think it is planned for all droppable weapons.

And about rockets i dont see a prob. AB has nothing powerfull against some axis heavies (RAF has at least 17 pounder). And No other western allied airplane and faction used so many rockets as US did. They developed several air to ground rockets resulting in the very often user HVAR. And its not click to kill. Sometimes tanks survive that run, the airplane gets shot down, the unit moves away etc. So it needs some skills.

Alltogether it is not a problem to implement it. I don't even deny the probable historical accuracy but purely from the gameplay point of view it would be easier to simply make the bombs also effective against vehicles. Also there is no more slots in ability quick menu so something would need to be moved elsewhere.

About the Johnson. People want it removed for historical reasons but for me it seems that Johnson is better than BAR. Can you have a look on booth weapons? would be nice.
.........
What's the difference between the Johnson LMG and the BAR? Both of them cost 45 munition but it seems that one is distinctly better than the other.

The weapons seem pretty much identical. Accuracy, reload, cooldown, TT all the same, only Johnson fires 2more bullets in a burst and has higher damage by one point.

@Mark. How do you like this idea: Mortar and HMG will be together in 1 unlock. Instead we ll have cheaper air weapons unlock ( 30-35 ammo instead 45).

Well, I don't think it's bad, however...At the moment Para is MP (Drops) and Ammo (weapon upgrades and planes) consuming. If infantr gets cheaper as Warhawks suggests, it will relieve some of the MP burden. If weapon upgrades get cheaper, you'll get better infantry through upgrades and still remains more for planes which might make them too effective.
I don't know...doesn't sound bad, but potentionally could (I don't say it necesarily will) lead to balance problems.
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Re: Airborne

Post by Warhawks97 »

1. Nice to hear
2. So then you make bombs more effective. Against vehicles OK but not against tanks. If damaged would get destroyed by close hits then bombs would be superior to rockets as bombs are more effective vs buildings than rockets. And i dont want to make booth equal just with different look. If Mortar and HMG squad would get unlocked together than we would have one more slot. just saying.
3. Well, so johnson is better and coz of that keep it as upgrade. What means "by one point"?
4. I dont get that point: "we will have cheaper air weapons unlocks".... an upgrade such as inf doc has that weapon cost less? Would actually fit since the 101st is suppossed to outnumber enemies such as inf doc to stand a chance. Typical "quantity boost". Actually US armor could need something similiar btw... ammo upgrades a bit cheaper. But thats off topic.


About Hellcat and M10. I think the M10 could be by default for all docs and Hellcats as unlock. I mean just have a look. Axis have either Multirole Marder I or stugs available which can be used vs defenses, tanks and inf. So it wouldnt be wrong if US would have same capabilties without unlock just shared over two units (sherman 75, M10). Brits are a bit special here. Anti inf tank but instead a TH a 17 pounder emplacment.
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Re: Airborne

Post by MarKr »

When I said "I think" I really mean that I don't know for sure - Wolf said it some time when the change was introduced for the first time and he said it was experimental and if proved to work well it would be implemented on other droppables too. Since nobody complained about it, so I deduce that it is planed...

2) OK, but don't tell me that such a bomb wouldn't mess up a tank on direct hit? But for the gameplay purposes you're right, it would be too OP.
If Mortar and HMG squad would get unlocked together than we would have one more slot. just saying.

True but what I meant is that US para currently has on the quick ability bar (the one on your UI) Para recon, 101st, 82nd, HQ squad, Recon plane, strafing run, bombing run and the final ability - you cannot put there another one. So something would need to be called in from somewhere else (probably HQ squad because it is being called in less often than the others)

3) "By one point" means that compared to BARs, Johnsons min and max damage per bullet is +1. In combination with longer bursts it should be more combat-efficient than BAR. Anyway, I was also thinking about giving them BARs instead of recoilless...might work.

@Mark. How do you like this idea: Mortar and HMG will be together in 1 unlock. Instead we ll have cheaper air weapons unlock ( 30-35 ammo instead 45).

When I say somewhere that I like some idea, it means that I like the sound of it but it doesn't mean that it will make it to the next patch. Wolf decides what goes and what not so it is just my point of view and that doesn't mean much ;).
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Re: Airborne

Post by Warhawks97 »

I also think such as we did it with commandos for better early/late game balance by decrease build and increase reinforce cost this could also help. Right now they cost 450/34 which makes them horrible alone and in early-mid game but powerfull in late when taking advantage of relatively cheap reinforce cost. I would really drop build cost for 101st to 400 for a better cost efficency but reinforce cost up to 36 or 37.

And in air drop crates BAR or Johnson? what would you guys prefer?
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Re: Airborne

Post by MarKr »

I would be for BARs. BARs are statistically worse (by tiny bit), but they would be for free which would help to 101st a lot to survive.
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Re: Airborne

Post by Tony_Frost »

MarKr wrote:I would be for BARs. BARs are statistically worse (by tiny bit), but they would be for free which would help to 101st a lot to survive.

Ме тоо, and buffed m1 carbine will help them a bit too, i think))
I want to remind about thompson upgrades, which required proximity of hq squad to obtain even on friendly territory.

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Re: Airborne

Post by Wake »

Just give the 101st squad M1 Garands. In real life, most of the paratroopers on D-Day had Garands. The Carbine was only given to weapon crews like mortar teams or radio operators. Giving them all Garands would definitely help, as now the 101st would act as just better riflemen until they get their LMG upgrades. They would at least be able to match the damage output of a standard riflemen squad.
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Re: Airborne

Post by Warhawks97 »

Wake wrote:Just give the 101st squad M1 Garands. In real life, most of the paratroopers on D-Day had Garands. The Carbine was only given to weapon crews like mortar teams or radio operators. Giving them all Garands would definitely help, as now the 101st would act as just better riflemen until they get their LMG upgrades. They would at least be able to match the damage output of a standard riflemen squad.



They dropped with garand on men or in crates? But actually it wouldnt matter since axis fallis have also FG42 and G43 althought those dropped in crates. Still i would like to see some buffed M1 carabine. Thing is How? They are actually made for close combat and using pistol ammo afaik. But in BK all allied weapons are only for short range, even the M1 Garand. Buffing the carabine would make them maybe better than M1 Garan on long range (which is not an unrealistic scenario). Too bad that most allied weapons work only on short and mid range effectively :roll:
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Re: Airborne

Post by Tony_Frost »

M1 carbine use 7.62×33mm unitary cartridge designed special for that. It was pretty modern weapon in WW2 times, and used even in Korea and Vietnam wars.

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Re: Airborne

Post by MarKr »

They dropped with garand on men or in crates?

I guess that the thought was to drop them with Garands right away.

I compared the weapons thoroughly and the outcome is this:
M1 Carbine (on 101st):

Code: Select all

Accuracy:0.8/0.6/0.25/0.2

Cooldown: 1.25 (time between each shot)
   distance multiplier: 0.75/1/1.5/1.5 (the basic "cooldown" is multiplied by this at each distance (going from short to distant) - probably meant to simulate the need of longer aiming at greater distances)

Damage: 14 - 18

Accuracy while moving: 0.15

Reloads after 14 shots
Reloading takes 2 - 2.5 seconds
   time multiplier on distances: 1.25/1.15/1/1 (when they fire at close distance the reload sequence is actually longer for some reason)


M1 Garand (Riflemen):

Code: Select all

Accuracy:0.65/0.45/0.2/0.2

Cooldown: 1.75
   distance multiplier: 0.45/1/1.5/1.5

Damage: 20 - 30

Accuracy while moving: 0.15

Reloads after 7 shots
Reloading takes 2.5 - 3.5 seconds
   time multiplier on distances: 1.25/1.15/1/1

So generaly speaking Carabine fires faster and has better accuracy at shorter distances - the usefulness of this feature is questionable...
Garand has 5% accuracy boost at long distance, however its greater advantage is in much bigger damage.

However Axis players know that their infantry armed with Kar98 has advantage at range so when they encounter Allied infantry they station them in cover and keep firing. All rifles (maybe all weapons - not sure now) suffer -50% accuracy against targets in light cover and -75% accuracy and -50% damage against targets in heavy cover. While these nerfs apply to Axis weapons too, the Allies seem to suffer more because of their poor basic accuracy at distance.
That means that if a soldier from 101st with Carabine fires at a soldier in green cover at max range, he has 5% chance to hit and if he hits, he will deal 7-9 damage.
Axis soldier with Kar98 under same conditions has 8.75% chance to hit and deal 11.5-16.5 damage.
Weapons in general have against para squads -25% accuracy penalty if the para squad is on the move...sounds cool but there is always some BUT :D
In order for Para squads to use their weapon "short range" advantage, they need to actually get at short range :D. While doing so, they often move without cover (even when moving from cover to cover, they most often run through places that provide no cover at least for some time) so the accuracy penalty for attacker kicks in but the squad loses the cover bonus. Add in the fact that often the movement is denied by HMG team or Bike/Schwimm and you'll get the picture where this infantry stands...
So I guess that stock Garands and free BARs wouldn't make them OP which is what I was at first afraid of...

EDIT:
This calculation is made for the "distant" range value it is different on shorter distances and of course Vet steps play a role too because they provide bonuses that mess these calculations up a lot.

Also the calculation corrected according to the fact that I overlooked a file :/
Last edited by MarKr on 18 Jan 2015, 11:49, edited 2 times in total.
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Wake
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Joined: 07 Dec 2014, 17:22
Location: USA

Re: Airborne

Post by Wake »

The carbine wasn't a very good weapon. It was used as a replacement for a pistol. It was better than a pistol, but was not better than a rifle. The bullet it fired, the .30 Carbine, was very small. The gun was used in the Korean War and it was discovered there that at longer ranges, the bullet was so weak that sometimes it wouldn't penetrate the thick winter coats that the communists wore.

The only reason it was used was because it was light and easy to carry but had longer range and power than a pistol.
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V13dweller
Posts: 128
Joined: 25 Nov 2014, 09:18
Location: Perth, Western Australia

Re: Airborne

Post by V13dweller »

The M1 Carbine was not supposed to be used at ranges past 100meters, as their sights only had two ranges, 50 meters and 100, so their accuracy at range was questionable in real life too. They also suffered from extreme bullet drop over 100 meters.

As comparison, the M1 Carbine's round had the same energy of an 8mm Nambu round, and a low muzzle energy of around 600 m/s (~) which again, contributed to poor accuracy and very high bullet drop, the gun's maximum usable range was about 270m, and that's the maximum.

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MarKr
Team Member
Posts: 4101
Joined: 23 Nov 2014, 19:17
Location: Czech Republic

Re: Airborne

Post by MarKr »

My aim was more for in-game insight rather than real life performance.

Anyway...101st with garands is not a bad idea...for other para squads (HMG/Mortar/Engineers...),except 82nd and HQ, it should stay.
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