Axis aa

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Warhawks97
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Re: Axis aa

Postby Warhawks97 » 02 Nov 2017, 12:15

MarKr wrote:@Hawks: And I am not saying that the single 20mm works historically accurate. I am saying that this topic is about the efficiency of AA units vs planes while you're bringing up rework plans for changing efficiency of AA units vs all units in general - and nobody complained about the performance of AA units vs ground units (except for you, now :D ).


How else to solve it then? The single 20 mm is a broken piece of shit and that affects it (good or bad) efficiency vs planes. You wont change that only via tt changes.

My answer: Not sure. I think the "circle of activation" has same diameter equal to the maximum range of the weapon it is using. I don't have it confirmed but I think it is like that. If it is so, then only units that have static AA mode could have increased "circle of actvation" because those change weapons. If we change it on normal units (such as M15A1/Crusader/emplacements etc.) it would also increase their normal fire range.


hmm. ok.

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MarKr
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Re: Axis aa

Postby MarKr » 02 Nov 2017, 13:14

Warhawks97 wrote:The single 20 mm is a broken piece of shit and that affects it (good or bad) efficiency vs planes.
This depends on your definition of "broken piece of shit". If your definition is "compared to reality, it is completely inaccurate" then you are right and fixing it would require what you ask for.
If the definition is "its performance vs several units is broken (OP/UP) and thus it creates balance issues" then you are not that much right - its performance is insanely high vs planes, the rest is OK (gameplay-wise).
My definition is the second one.

Warhawks97 wrote:You wont change that only via tt changes.
Why not? The single 20mm has an average damage vs planes per burst of "74.4". Planes have 75 HP so on average a single burst of this weapon takes out a plane. Bofors, quad .50cal and quad 20mm have all on average between 40 and 50 damage. Single 20mm can be brought on similar level of performance by tweaking damage or accuracy vs planes in TT.
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GrigoriRasputin(SVT)
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Re: Axis aa

Postby GrigoriRasputin(SVT) » 02 Nov 2017, 15:10

One guy gets beaten by a better player in PVP and comes and creates threads about a specific unit being OP..

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Redgaarden
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Re: Axis aa

Postby Redgaarden » 03 Nov 2017, 10:55

For how op planes are. I would like to have my aa just as op to counter aa. So if we reduce dmg/dps of aa guns, then we should also reduce plane hp accordingly.

And i dont think we need a flakwierling buff since I think, that an mg42 like performance should be just right. And I hate burst fire weapons in these kinds of game.
Rifles are not for fighting. They are for building!

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Warhawks97
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Re: Axis aa

Postby Warhawks97 » 03 Nov 2017, 13:35

@markr: Not just vs planes, also vs vehicles. I would reccommend to change the description as well. Say that its a 20 mm canon that shoots special ammo that turns this weapon technically into a 40 mm. I mean. Why not creating a special Stubby tank IV that is able to fire HE shots with the destructive power of Jagdtigers 128 mm HE rounds. Since we give a fuck now regarding this. I was just about to think about a 75 mm sherman with automatic firemode and 90 mm penetration power. Just make some changes in the description and adjust the cost.

@Red: So no more reloads to weapons? Remove bursts from MG´s and make them shooting like heavy bolters in dawn of war games?

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Panzer-Lehr-Division
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Re: Axis aa

Postby Panzer-Lehr-Division » 05 Nov 2017, 02:08

GrigoriRasputin(SVT) wrote:One guy gets beaten by a better player in PVP and comes and creates threads about a specific unit being OP..

Like i beat you everyday mister rokossovski?
SunZiom: but true is you`re only one man which i know who really know how play PE
CyberdyneModel101: you're unstoppable

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Redgaarden
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Re: Axis aa

Postby Redgaarden » 05 Nov 2017, 11:53

)@Mark. I used the 20mm halftrack. And yes the wirblewind is just so insane that it easily kills planes even when moving. Even if ilm strong advocate for strong aa. I feel like the wirblewind is a little bit op.
Rifles are not for fighting. They are for building!

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MarKr
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Re: Axis aa

Postby MarKr » 05 Nov 2017, 13:48

Warhawks97 wrote:@markr: Not just vs planes, also vs vehicles. I would reccommend to change the description as well. Say that its a 20 mm canon that shoots special ammo that turns this weapon technically into a 40 mm. I mean. Why not creating a special Stubby tank IV that is able to fire HE shots with the destructive power of Jagdtigers 128 mm HE rounds. Since we give a fuck now regarding this. I was just about to think about a 75 mm sherman with automatic firemode and 90 mm penetration power. Just make some changes in the description and adjust the cost.

Jesus, man....can you point at a single person here (appart yourself), who wants pin-point historical accuracy in these weapons regarding clip sizes, reload times and rates of fire? In the entire time I've been around BK (which is only about 3 years) nobody complained aboout this. I said that the extreme AA performance of the static single 20mm will be brought down (and quite honestly I have yet to see a person here who cares in the technical details of how it will be brought down as long as it is at least a bit believeable). As for performance vs vehicles: 20mm flak can bounce off of light vehicles, Bofors cannot. 20mm flak deals overall less damage per shot than Bofors. So strictly per bullet Bofors is better. I already said once today - "historical accuracy" argument has less weight than "gameplay" argument and for gameplay it is not desireable to buff any of Bofors, quad .50cal, quad 20mm or single 20mm significantly above the others even if it were hitorically accurate.
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Diablo
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Re: Axis aa

Postby Diablo » 07 Nov 2017, 14:34

A single little complain I would like to propose:
The base Bofors emplacement wasnt able to quickly finish off Panzer Elite vehicles. Not sure how the balance between British AA and Panzer Elite vehicles is supposed to be, but I witnessed an Opel Blitz Flak (yes, that unarmored truck AA from HQ) take - no - tank a whole burst of Bofors to the front, leaving with about a quarter of the health bar left and no critical taken. All while the emplacement took its merry time reloading.

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MarKr
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Re: Axis aa

Postby MarKr » 07 Nov 2017, 18:24

It could have been rare occasion. When I wrote about average damage per burst it is really AVERAGE, that means it can be more and also less. In your case it could be that the gun simply had bad accuracy rolls and missed most of the shots. Criticals are also based on RNG. So...unless what you described happens on regular basis, I would say it was just a luck.
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