How to Ruin Blitzkrieg Mod

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Henny
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How to Ruin Blitzkrieg Mod

Postby Henny » 26 Sep 2017, 00:11

Add 6 second timer to anti tank guns

This was the final nail in the coffin, rest in piece competitive PVP.

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Tiger1996
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Re: How to Ruin Blitzkrieg Mod

Postby Tiger1996 » 26 Sep 2017, 02:10

Currently it's 6 seconds actually.. at least in the actual game, even though it's only 4 seconds in Crosix.
But ya, I agree that even if it was actual 4 seconds... It would be still rather much!
As I would say 2 seconds are very enough, and for ALL kind of AT guns.

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Re: How to Ruin Blitzkrieg Mod

Postby Mr. FeministDonut » 26 Sep 2017, 07:21

Just guessing, how does it takes to make a hot fix, that will make US early gameplay back to normal? Just like every light AT gun.
It really killing in the womb US vs PE gameplay, which German part of community likes to abuse.

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Henny
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Re: How to Ruin Blitzkrieg Mod

Postby Henny » 26 Sep 2017, 07:54

It is literally impossible to counter Panzer elite scout cars with 6 second DELAY as American in early game. IMPOSSIBLE. If you are new to bk mod pvp you will just get your ass handed to you because you lose early game automatically. Good balance fix!

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Panzerblitz1
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Re: How to Ruin Blitzkrieg Mod

Postby Panzerblitz1 » 26 Sep 2017, 08:41

This will be changed for light and medium anti tanks guns, the time will be reduced for them, only heavier units like the 76mm/17pdr/Pak 40/Pak 43 will keep that set up delay.

New light & medium anti tank guns settings:

US 57mm gun had 4-5 seconds, will be 2 - 2.5
CW 6Pdr gun had 4-5 seconds, will be 2 - 2.5
Axis Pak 38 will be 2 - 2.5 seconds
US 37mm will be 1.5 - 2 seconds
Axis Pak 36 will be 1.5 - 2 seconds
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Mr. FeministDonut
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Re: How to Ruin Blitzkrieg Mod

Postby Mr. FeministDonut » 26 Sep 2017, 10:14

Panzerblitz1 wrote:This will be changed for light and medium anti tanks guns, the time will be reduced for them, only heavier units like the 76mm/17pdr/Pak 40/Pak 43 will keep that set up delay.

New light & medium anti tank guns settings:

US 57mm gun had 4-5 seconds, will be 2 - 2.5
CW 6Pdr gun had 4-5 seconds, will be 2 - 2.5
Axis Pak 38 will be 2 - 2.5 seconds
US 37mm will be 1.5 - 2 seconds
Axis Pak 36 will be 1.5 - 2 seconds

Good news! But how soon?
p.s I'm a great fan of panzerblitz's mod and his team, so I wish you guys long live, so you can bring more happiness to this world!

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Panzerblitz1
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Re: How to Ruin Blitzkrieg Mod

Postby Panzerblitz1 » 26 Sep 2017, 10:40

Soon, and Mate it is not my Mod not My team ;) its first Xalibur mod, then our mod as a team, it include few more people than just only me ;) but thx anyway, my ego will be happy :D
Bk is still alive because of Wolf & Markr very hard work.
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Re: How to Ruin Blitzkrieg Mod

Postby Tiger1996 » 26 Sep 2017, 12:40

Panzerblitz1 wrote:only heavier units like the 76mm/17pdr/Pak 40/Pak 43 will keep that set up delay.

Heavier AT guns are already more expensive, available later and also moving slower... There is no logic reason that justifies the longer delay on them!

Therefore those high caliber AT guns should also have less aim time.

And rather than adding more aim time to these guns, it would be better to remove their Anti-infantry capabilities.. talking about the HE rounds.

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idliketoplaybetter
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Re: How to Ruin Blitzkrieg Mod

Postby idliketoplaybetter » 26 Sep 2017, 13:27

I'd better agree for keeping this aiming time, but adding crit/accuracy for ATguns.
Like, reasoning what i see behind "slowing" them, is that, operating such thing is quiet complicated, especially setting up a proper hit, so that is again, reasonable in my eyes.
As it happened to handheldATsquads (unless ofcourse, as i understand this aiming time was not intented but a part of some bug, right?).

Guess thinking this through would benefit to the gameplay, and taking HE rounds won't be even that necessary! But overall micro needed to catch infantry with it will be suffecient.


And again, i must say, that early games now are much better from a perspective of game temp, or rate. It's like players are now forced to play safer with their atguns and count on ingame situation, it is less rare to see those light at's to be on front doing RNG crits over first field units.., however it is obviously a 2side coin question, when again, map and bad luck + Scoutcars/schwimms/jeeps can waste a game.
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Re: How to Ruin Blitzkrieg Mod

Postby Panzerblitz1 » 26 Sep 2017, 13:37

Tiger1996 wrote: There is no logic reason that justifies the longer delay on them!


Yes there is, and has been explained, i will not come back to that again.



idliketoplaybetter wrote:Scoutcars/schwimms/jeeps can waste a game.


Thats exactely why early AT's will be reduced in time as i said.
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Re: How to Ruin Blitzkrieg Mod

Postby idliketoplaybetter » 26 Sep 2017, 13:48

Not exactly, my point was kinda around that honestly

Like with after ATsquad aiming time been changed, there appeared a need in revising of HE effectivness, tank speeds and etc, prices, but new aim time was good thing. So what i was saying there, is more likely to be considered in perspective changes, rather than returing it back..
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Re: How to Ruin Blitzkrieg Mod

Postby Tiger1996 » 26 Sep 2017, 13:50

Panzerblitz1 wrote:Yes there is, and has been explained, i will not come back to that again.

You may not come back to that again, but always I will.

There are some tanks that are even faster than early game scout cars and light vehicles... I mean the ones that have flank speed.

Such a long aim time for heavier AT guns only make it impossible to effectively counter tanks with high mobility.

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Re: How to Ruin Blitzkrieg Mod

Postby Warhawks97 » 26 Sep 2017, 14:05

The new proposed changes doesnt look bad. That way deciding which AT gun to choose will be a lot more interessting. Light AT currently hadnt many advantages over heavies except being faster.

The decision will be a lot more strategic. What is the enemie going to get? Heavy tanks or vehicles. Currently its more "heavy is better". Heavy at guns countering well armored tanks and not simply "everything". But vehicles can outmaneuver them which is a cool thing. Meamwhile it can happen to choose light AT expecting vehicles and tanks will roll out.

Just i hope these new patches coming quick.

Keep in mind for those "heavy AT guns cost more already": Their cost performence ratio wont change in relation to the other AT. Currently it usually brings more benefits to always get heavy AT (for allis at least). They reliable kill more expensive units due to damage and penetration power.

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Re: How to Ruin Blitzkrieg Mod

Postby Tiger1996 » 26 Sep 2017, 14:10

Warhawks97 wrote:They reliable kill more expensive units due to damage and penetration power.

Not that reliable anymore with actual 6 seconds aim time.
Penetration power does not matter if you are not ever going to shoot... Not to mention that it may miss the shot! Or even bounce off yet.

Being already more expensive, with lower mobility compared to smaller AT guns as well as late availability.. are already enough drawbacks.

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idliketoplaybetter
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Re: How to Ruin Blitzkrieg Mod

Postby idliketoplaybetter » 26 Sep 2017, 14:18

Warhawks97 wrote: "heavy is better".


Exactly, everyone were used to rush atsquads into tanks from front and retreat, same with atguns, insta shot after move.
And in case of using bigger gun, that ofcourse works better. Now, it least presupposes fact, that u better have alarm hidden reserve to deal with something, in case of more possible flank, but most of that debatable on ingame situation and map related to it!
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Re: How to Ruin Blitzkrieg Mod

Postby Warhawks97 » 26 Sep 2017, 15:02

Tiger1996 wrote:

Being already more expensive, with lower mobility compared to smaller AT guns as well as late availability.. are already enough drawbacks.


Well. AT guns were more or less "outdated" in ww2, at least the heaviest couldnt keep up with the required mobility in this new era of warefare. Very bad mobility and after battle of bulge the US retired all towed AT regiments and replaced all by mobile Tank destroyers. The heaviest one couldnt be moved by men alone actually (if any, only the pak 40 with lots of menpower).

If you have them a little back and facing the right direction you will kill tanks decently. You have a vast range advantage and two shots before they will see you.
It helps to reduce artillery dependency as "simple heavy defense spam" can be easier outmaneuvered and flanked now. BK is going to become more mobile and dynamic with less "defensive push+ arty" style. More smart defensive playing and so on. Mobile defense with less mobile back ups will hopefully be the future of BK now. As you might now, i didnt use many AT guns and mainly mediums. And as those will be adjusted in i am all fine. As PE i used Hetzers anyway and as allied M10. As WH i can easily switch over to stugs and def doc has td´s anyway.

I think the main complain is "OMG i can camp behind my 0 fuel heavy AT defense and wait untill i get panthers". Maybe consider to manage your fuel better so that you wont waste everything at all in mid game without speding nothing but MP to hold your ground. Find the middle way between spending for medium tanks and assault guns/td´s while keep reserves for late armor?! Its really not that there are no other options. M10´s, hetzers and stugs are really fine pieces. Try it.

I understand the early US game being a huge pain against PE currently, there is nothing else but the AT gun to save your as. But later on, if AT guns is all you get for defending your ground against mostly slowly moving tanks then you might rethink your gamesytle.

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Re: How to Ruin Blitzkrieg Mod

Postby Panzerblitz1 » 26 Sep 2017, 15:23

Warhawks97 wrote:I understand the early US game being a huge pain against PE currently, there is nothing else but the AT gun to save your as. But later on, if AT guns is all you get for defending your ground against mostly slowly moving tanks then you might rethink your gamesytle.


What about AT/MG/20mm early armored cars? who can even pen. badly shermans? i don't understand here, its like PE don't have anything from the start where there is some of the best highly mobile units who can do the job...

Funny topic here... viewtopic.php?f=15&t=2297
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Tiger1996
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Re: How to Ruin Blitzkrieg Mod

Postby Tiger1996 » 26 Sep 2017, 15:30

@Hawks
Mate, the aim time was added to prevent instant/double shooting.. which is a bug I reported myself. The change had nothing to do with balance, gameplay style, ww2 history, or even realism. So, I am not really going to discuss about "other options" or how to make use of other alternatives.. and it's not like I am not aware about all of them... Nonetheless, actual 6 seconds is an exaggerated solution.
Did you even try the new aim time on this patch btw?? I can remember you recently wrote that you never did.
Therefore I am wondering if you have finally managed to get the chance to play version 5.0.0 at all or not yet...
I would say you should actually see how it behaves in the real game first before talking in theory!

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Re: How to Ruin Blitzkrieg Mod

Postby Panzerblitz1 » 26 Sep 2017, 15:32

Tiger1996 wrote:Mate, the aim time was added to prevent instant/double shooting.. which is a bug I reported myself. The change had nothing to do with balance, gameplay style, ww2 history, or even realism. So, I am not really going to discuss about "other options" or how to make use of other alternatives


sorry but other options are in order here, not only the option you like.
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Re: How to Ruin Blitzkrieg Mod

Postby Tiger1996 » 26 Sep 2017, 15:50

Meh, W.E.L.L ....

Whatever.

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Re: How to Ruin Blitzkrieg Mod

Postby mofetagalactica » 27 Sep 2017, 07:59

¿There is any counter againts scout cars and other light armored cars that isn't the starting AT canon with usa? Or ¿i have to pick british everytime i see a PE player?

Also tiger, why u keep trying to explain something to someone that dosn't even play the game?

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Re: How to Ruin Blitzkrieg Mod

Postby Panzerblitz1 » 27 Sep 2017, 11:02

Yes, we don't know the game, we just pick something randomly, like that, we have in intern a big wheel of fortune with settings and values marked on it and once in a while we turn that wheel and implement the results...

I will add to that wheel a PE nerf and a u.s. Buff mark for the next turn, PE seems too op it seems versus the u.s...
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Tiger1996
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Re: How to Ruin Blitzkrieg Mod

Postby Tiger1996 » 27 Sep 2017, 12:50

:lol: What a great way of developing the game!

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Re: How to Ruin Blitzkrieg Mod

Postby sgtToni95 » 27 Sep 2017, 13:29

i think the "no work today" should be bigger or more than 3

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Re: How to Ruin Blitzkrieg Mod

Postby Panzerblitz1 » 27 Sep 2017, 13:49

sgtToni95 wrote:i think the "no work today" should be bigger or more than 3


You would be surprised i think.
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