Sd.Kfz. 251/7 Halftrack (28mm sPzB)

[mofetagalactica]

¿Can someone explain me why has such a high rate of fire?

[kwok]

Because no one knows how to abuse it yet so it was never balanced. Have fun with it while you can!! Axis is filled with those secrets because unlike allied players, axis players only use like... 30% of their unit assortment 90% of the time.

[Krieger Blitzer]

Someone might also ask, why does the US 57mm AT gun half-track has such a huge range.. even out-ranging the Axis 75mm AT gun half-track(s).

[Mr. FeministDonut]

Someone might also ask, why does the US 57mm AT gun half-track has such a huge range.. even out-ranging the Axis 75mm AT gun half-track(s).

I don't know, maybe because US units mostly are unreliable and suck the whole time

[Warhawks97]

¿Can someone explain me why has such a high rate of fire?

Short Answer: Balance

Long Answer:

Its wasnt long ago were Jagdpanthers and and most axis tanks could shoot faster than US idiots could load their 57 mm AT gun or stuart tank and so on and so on and so on.
Generally, US idiots were unable to use their weapons. They didnt know how to reload their guns, didnt know how to use their weapons, they have no idea how to fight.

And still, if you take a look: The German super genetics can shoot their bolt actions as fast as shitty US homies can push the trigger of their semi rifles (Just this patch it got "fixed", US now shoot a millisecond faster). Their tank super genetic loaders can fire Tank IV 75 mm Tank IV rounds and even heavy 88 shells of the 88 L/71 just as fast as US pussies can load their fucking 37 mm glass canons of a stuart tank. 3,5-4.5 sec for stuart, 4,5-5.5 for the heavy gunned axis tanks. Many of them will load even faster in stationary mode.

Ok, to be fair here: Allied td load standard 4.2 seconds. But they are top open with special quick accessable rounds in so called ready racks. The jackson loads 7 seconds whatsoever. On top of that, the US shermans were the most comfortable tanks for the crews that enabled them to fire extremely fast. A skilled loader in a 76 sherman managed to load the gun in 2 seconds with quickly accessable rounds (in shermans, all were quickly accessable). The Firefly and Panther for example were extremly exhausting and complicate to reload (the firefly actually had just 5 ready rounds that still were difficult to reload). To be fair at the one hand, Panther reloads 7 seconds standard (in reality skilled and trained gunner could do that) while it would actually be longer. To be fair a second time, it doesnt have a range superiority. Bad news is: The firefly reloads a second faster as the 76 sherman which is actually nonsense. 6 seconds compared to 7. It would actually be more like 4-5 seconds vs 7-9 seconds for the firefly.

But since we have to portray US dudes as mothers boys that still suck on mothers chest and producing lots of shit to win the battle while Axis will always be the heroic fighters with (a german conscript is surely better than an US "fake elite soldier" called ranger bc germans are always the better fighters bc of their history of wars reaching back to babarian age) superior weaponary. Sadly the engine doesnt allow us to let tanks fly. And for the sake of balance, we sadly had to allow that allied guns can penetrate unpenetrationable Axis super high quality steel made of mithril which they stole from Frodo who also worked as slave in one of the german factories in order to produce new super rings for their soldiers.


No matter what kind of performence: Accuracy, rof, reload, armor, damage. US is always worst, then brits and then axis. Let it be german genetic soldiers or whatever. The answer you will get to all this: Balance. US is simply the faction that always has to spam the shit out of everything. Axis will always be the faction that have rambos with super genetics, Genetic crews and tuned stats.

This is one thing "you can see" bc yeah, idk how you could see that. Theres a lot you dont know.



If you wonder why the US 57 mm has such Range. The dudes are drunk and trigger too early. They hit shit and wont penetrate most targets.
Counterquestion: Why has stupa and stuh such range. "Close support" vehicles to clear out trenches, AT guns etc. Its artillery for free in the game.


Edit: A small quiz now:
the 57 mm was (realistically) better than axis 50 mm AT gun or at least they were on pair. In game both cost the same.

Now the question:
What do you think, penetrates the 57 mm AT gun axis Tank IV´s with 50 mm of unslopped armor better than the axis 50mm AT gun penetrates shermans with 51 mm of slopped armor (easy eight even had 63 slopped - thus 90 mm effectively- and the glacis often exceeded 100 mm at the lowest frontal part)? And is the 50 mm better vs shermans or against tank IV´s (stubby once)?

[kwok]

Yeah Warhawks, you say some truths but this one in particular? Do you really think this specific unit has been adjusted so for balance? As soon as I ask "who even uses it" there will be 5 people who say they did, but find me more than at least 3 replays in the entire library of bk where this unit is used. Meanwhile, give it less than 3 patches and this unit will probably be nerfed.

[Warhawks97]

Well, it was sarcasm. Was i so good? damn.P

Well, i was used to use it. It can penetrate shermans and in addition with 50 mm a very nice tool to finish of enemies.... recces, stuart tanks, Crusader AA tank, Scotts (it was just epic to use it vs scott spammers). It needs some carefull handling and a few shots to kill stuff like shermans or crusader, but since nobody has this unit on its list nobody really cares for it untill its too late.

The only real reason preventing me to get it freqently later on was the high cost of every PE unit. But for early mid game its great. Its an absolutely vehicle denier. Stuff like greyhound/recce rush become more or less impossible. At least when used in addition with a 37 or 50. Well preserved i got max vet with it a couple of times. Its the best vehicle to counter any other vehicle.

But pls dont tell that to the public.

[mofetagalactica]

Well, it was sarcasm. Was i so good? damn.P

Well, i was used to use it. It can penetrate shermans and in addition with 50 mm a very nice tool to finish of enemies.... recces, stuart tanks, Crusader AA tank, Scotts (it was just epic to use it vs scott spammers). It needs some carefull handling and a few shots to kill stuff like shermans or crusader, but since nobody has this unit on its list nobody really cares for it untill its too late.

The only real reason preventing me to get it freqently later on was the high cost of every PE unit. But for early mid game its great. Its an absolutely vehicle denier. Stuff like greyhound/recce rush become more or less impossible. At least when used in addition with a 37 or 50. Well preserved i got max vet with it a couple of times. Its the best vehicle to counter any other vehicle.

But pls dont tell that to the public.

The fact that is able to penetrate stuarts and greyhounds with such ease and being able to shoot 2 times faster than a 37 mm its really incredibly for is price.

[Warhawks97]

well, the gun was powerfull enough, thats not the prob, its rather the general making and portraying some stuff

btw. i just noticed its about the def doc Halftrack, not the PE wheeled vehicle with the same gun

Ah men, how you didnt figure that one as well? haha



This gun is hard to balance i think. We cant increase the cost endless, and since its just a 28 mm gun with small rounds we cant make it shooting slower so far. And it simply had this penetration power. In theory at least. About the damage i am unsure. The Boys are also dealing huge damage considering its just a a 13 mm rifle and not an 37 mm AT gun.

[kwok]

The sad part of your sarcasm is how true some of it is...

Lol and OF COURSE you said you used it... like I said "everyone is going to say they use it". Kind of like how everyone says they use smoke, then suddenly people started using it and found problems with it after I called everyone out for not using it. Friendly jab at you though, hehe.

[mofetagalactica]

well, the gun was powerfull enough, thats not the prob, its rather the general making and portraying some stuff

btw. i just noticed its about the def doc Halftrack, not the PE wheeled vehicle with the same gun

Ah men, how you didnt figure that one as well? haha



This gun is hard to balance i think. We cant increase the cost endless, and since its just a 28 mm gun with small rounds we cant make it shooting slower so far. And it simply had this penetration power. In theory at least. About the damage i am unsure. The Boys are also dealing huge damage considering its just a a 13 mm rifle and not an 37 mm AT gun.

I just noticed that i writed bad the title, since i was trying to talk about the Sd.KfZ. 221 Armored Car (28mm sPzB) - 320 MP/15 Fuel From PE , but yeah i think both shoots really fast for the damage that they make.

[kwok]

It's fun to make two of the PE car at the early game and have them carry all the way up to killing the first Sherman rush. It also completely denies any light vehicles that come out from early to mid game. But that takes lots of micro. Pays itself off really fast if you can pull it off. High risk reward.

[mofetagalactica]

It's fun to make two of the PE car at the early game and have them carry all the way up to killing the first Sherman rush. It also completely denies any light vehicles that come out from early to mid game. But that takes lots of micro. Pays itself off really fast if you can pull it off. High risk reward.

High risk for 640 mp and 30 fuel? LOL i dont see the risk.

[Warhawks97]

Kwok, in recent patches the PE players (but also me) went less often for vehicles and instead infantry and AT gun. Against US you dont need the 28 mm so much since US guys will mostly spam a few AT guns rather than jeeps. And against CW PE opening is now more inf focused due to boys. But in older versions or when playing with mates one of these vehicles was always present (double PE start) paired with like 3 normal scout cars. But i know what its able to since i used it also to counter a spam of anti infantry vehicles like recce´s, Crusaders and stuarts.

So, i did use it far more often as i did later and esspecially now.

[kwok]

Mofeta, 30fuel is delaying tech and other vehicles. It delays the mortar halftrack/marder/hetzer plus it uses build time on the logistics building which is needed to tech up higher. and is easily useless if the other team makes no vehicles at all which is still a popular possibility. This isn't even counting the micro needed to deal with 1 Sherman. That's the high risk.

Warhawks, You're right about the boys opening and the new PE assault pio opening. I still laugh when people were complaining about CW being too strong... then I started 1v1 as pe to prove a point with assault pios. Now wurf and every other pe player (except maybe lehr) does it.

Previously, jeeps were pretty much EVERY USA opening. Every. Gardening. Game.
Plus the Recce rush for EVERY CW player. Every. Gardening. Game.
That's why double 28mm was so good in the past.

[Panzer-Lehr-Division]

Mofeta, 30fuel is delaying tech and other vehicles. It delays the mortar halftrack/marder/hetzer plus it uses build time on the logistics building which is needed to tech up higher. and is easily useless if the other team makes no vehicles at all which is still a popular possibility. This isn't even counting the micro needed to deal with 1 Sherman. That's the high risk.

Warhawks, You're right about the boys opening and the new PE assault pio opening. I still laugh when people were complaining about CW being too strong... then I started 1v1 as pe to prove a point with assault pios. Now wurf and every other pe player (except maybe lehr) does it.

Previously, jeeps were pretty much EVERY USA opening. Every. Gardening. Game.
Plus the Recce rush for EVERY CW player. Every. Gardening. Game.
That's why double 28mm was so good in the past.

I used it too but i used yeeeeeaaaaaaaaar's ago before i even know you, but i stopped with it back then because People went for mortar back then not for boy's.

[OttoVonBunkerstein]

I have some questions about this little cheaky truck.
Since im able to build all the ATs + leig18, why its disabled to deploy not dig in versions on field? (only pak 40 and 43)
also if im able to build, why i cant repair? at least dig in things.
Another thing - emplace leig 18 have no salvo ability. Is that on purpose?
and another, pak 43 can rotate without delay / pak 40 have that delay. Well i like it, accualy i can use it quite effective against arrmor. Its not logical but who cares.
Last thing - emplacement seems to me fragile even 60mm mortar can take em down by 3 hits. On the other hand British dig in 17 pounder is immortall after upgrade. Maybe the tech tree up for improved emplacements not working correctly. Looks like those emplacements was forgotten throught some version ups. Would be nice to see someone using it in game except me xD

[MarKr]

Since im able to build all the ATs + leig18, why its disabled to deploy not dig in versions on field? (only pak 40 and 43)

The availability of the AT guns is based on when the mobile variants are available in T2 building. The 50mm AT gun can be purchased immediately after the game starts, and so the Halftrack can place them immediately. PaK40 requires some teching in T2 building so the Halftrack can only place the PaK40 when all the tech is gained. PaK43 requires an unlock, if I remember it right etc.

also if im able to build, why i cant repair? at least dig in things.

Volksgrenadiers can also build sandbags, wires and whatnot but cannot repair them. Ability to build doesn't have to mean ability to repair.

Another thing - emplace leig 18 have no salvo ability. Is that on purpose?

Yes, it is an anti-infantry/light vehicle emplacement, not an arty emplacement. Def doc has howitzer emplacement that have more range and stronger shells so it was deemed unnecessary to give the LeiG emplacement the arty ability.

pak 43 can rotate without delay / pak 40 have that delay.

That's probably an oversight. I'll check it and fix it.

Last thing - emplacement seems to me fragile even 60mm mortar can take em down by 3 hits. On the other hand British dig in 17 pounder is immortall after upgrade. Maybe the tech tree up for improved emplacements not working correctly. Looks like those emplacements was forgotten throught some version ups.

It is possible, I will check them too.

[OttoVonBunkerstein]

The availability of the AT guns is based on when the mobile variants are available in T2 building. The 50mm AT gun can be purchased immediately after the game starts, and so the Halftrack can place them immediately. PaK40 requires some teching in T2 building so the Halftrack can only place the PaK40 when all the tech is gained. PaK43 requires an unlock, if I remember it right etc.

Yeah i ged it, but still i can deploy MOBILE only pak 40 or 43. Not the others emplacement versions that i can build.

Mobile
pak 40, pak 43
Dig in
leig18, pak 38, pak 40, pak 43

BTW dig in leig 18 is available from the start - no need to go for assault phase but cant salvo so i think there s no problem.
And yeah your point make sence, but still building sand bags is quite diferent to deploying and building heavy AT emplacement. TBH its something like sapper halftruck, right? But whatever, that could make this truck to OP

Last thing, maybe add pak 36 or 38 to deploy would be nice to increse early value. Tried some early 251/7 strats and is not working at all xD


Edit
Some button to lock position like pz4 J have/had so the rear mg can be usefull coz the at peeepee doing nothing to inf. Also i noticed that hitting mortar or mg crew doing nothig to em neither do not dmg the equip. In amer mg case it kills 2 team members, but the last (holding the mg) is just immortal
or
focus fire ability like PE "nuclear rocket" vehicle have

[MarKr]

Mobile Leig18 and PaK 38 are available in T2 building. Not really needed to be spawnable by the halftrack because those two are still relatively quick to move. The PaK 40 and 43 are available in the HT because they are slow as dirt and so you can deploy them where you need them rather than building them in the base and waiting 20 minutes to arrive where you want it.

It is not like the Sapper Bren in RE - that one is specifically repair vehicle. It cannot build anything. 28mm HT can build but not repair. You already have repair bunkers and Pioneers that can be more resilient than normal Pioneer squads thanks to an unlock. Another unit that can repair stuff is not needed there.

You can force the halftrack to face some way by giving it the "attack ground" command - click with it in the opposite direction from the enemy and the HT will turn, shoot the spot you selected and the rear MG can shoot infantry.

Focus Fire was given to the PE 28mm Armored car because its purpose is literally just fighting vehicles. The Def doc halftrack is more of a utility unit. Buffing its combat abilities is not needed there.

[Diablo]

I think the same fix as for the blitz 37mm HT should be applied here: no infantry auto-targetting with main gun.

[Walderschmidt]

I think the same fix as for the blitz 37mm HT should be applied here: no infantry auto-targetting with main gun.

Yes.

Wald

[OttoVonBunkerstein]

I think the same fix as for the blitz 37mm HT should be applied here: no infantry auto-targetting with main gun.

Yes.

Wald

Would be nice. No need to babysit it like crazy clicker to use the rear mg? a dream come true