Motorcycle OP 220mp

[jonnyyankee]

Hellow the other time i was playing pvp and i was Us my partner Us too and we lost many times because so many axis players make alot of motorcycles and its so hard to win because them kill flank my at guns and sometimes my at guns dont have good accuracy somebody can give me a advice or blitzkrieg mod can change the value of motorbike axis players are spamming only that and IA too spamming alot of motorbikes i think the axis players take that idea from IA well i hope some solution for this ! thanks

[Warhawks97]

Hellow the other time i was playing pvp and i was Us my partner Us too and we lost many times because so many axis players make alot of motorcycles and its so hard to win because them kill flank my at guns and sometimes my at guns dont have good accuracy somebody can give me a advice or blitzkrieg mod can change the value of motorbike axis players are spamming only that and IA too spamming alot of motorbikes i think the axis players take that idea from IA well i hope some solution for this ! thanks

Motorbike and schwimmwagen are nice infantry moving denier. I recently had one at Dust and stones and killed an enemie unit right in front of enemie base in early game which tried to cap the fuel. After that it forced 3 enemie inf squads to stay behind a green wall untill a Greyhound came after a few mins. But i never saw motorbike spam. Schwimmwagen spam yes. In a 4 vs 4 two or three days ago my enemie used two of them. Those killed the entire british early game army (boys at, sapper etc). My AT gun failed 4 times in a row and the two schwimmwagen quickly scored up to 40 kills. Really nasty is double Schwimwagen + SE sniper (and the Grens oO). I still found now real solution for that. Only good micro of jeep and rifles (and maybe snper) can help if you want to attack them. Thing is you need to know that your enemie will do that. So if you prepare for anti double schwimmagen+sniper you may get surprised by a scout car and you have no Pak. It helps a lot to know your PE enemie. Many have the same style in early game.

[Wake]

This is one of the largest factors that I feel backs the "axis are OP" argument. It's the early game.

Allies are supposed to be the ones that are always attacking, always on the move, and always pressuring the enemy, while the Axis are supposedly building defenses and slowly going towards their heavy tanks.

But in game, it is very different. In early game, axis are ALWAYS on the attack, simply because of 4 units: Motorcycle, Schwimmwagen, Scout Car, and Kettenkrad.

These units are DEATH ON WHEELS. They ANNIHILATE every allied infantry unit! In seconds! If you are caught in open ground vs one of these vehicles, you must retreat, or else you will lose your unit completely. Even a 435 MP Infantry Section gets FUCKED by a 220 MP bike. It's ridiculous.

Then you have all the axis fanboys saying "Just go to green heavy cover". So you want the allied units to just wait behind cover for an enemy vehicle to come that might not even be there? In the game, early allied units are going to be capturing points or moving up.

What's even worse is PE. They cap ridiculously fast because the kettenkrad has a very fast cap rate + it is a vehicle, which means it moves very very fast compared to allies who must run around engineers to cap slowly or a lieutenant. What happens to these units? Good players will hunt them down using their vehicles. A bike or schwimm will just go behind enemy lines and find the lieutenant and engineers. It's so ridiculous that these units cannot even retreat before being gunned down by the MG on the axis vehicles.

You know why I am so mad? Because I do this ALL THE TIME. I LOVE playing PE because it is so dirty and cheap. My early game units completely OWN the battlefield. ESPECIALLY once I get a scout car out, a bulletproof vehicle, which usually takes about 2 minutes from game start.

There are exactly 2 units that can destroy a scout car in early game. Boys AT and and the US 37mm AT Gun. Microing around an AT gun is easy. And if a player wants to camoflage the AT Gun, well, then I get control of every other part of the map that doesn't have that AT gun. As for boys AT? They cost 270 MP, which is more than a schwimm and the AT gun and often performs much worse. They have incredibly bad accuracy, and often times will lose a fight vs any of the early game axis vehicles.

Boys AT in the open with no cover? 100% will lose vs early game axis vehicles.

Boys AT behind heavy cover? They will miss their first shot 75% of the time, and what I do is shoot at them in between their shots, and right before the boys AT fires, I move my vehicle, and because the boys AT has terribly bad accuracy vs moving units, they will miss. Then I shoot at them again and repeat the cycle. Then the boys AT dies. The 270 MP unit that was DESIGNED to kill my early game vehicles and is more expensive than a bike and schwimm just lost in a fight vs them.

The scout car is the worst, because it is bulletproof. Having a bulletproof vehicle in the game after usually 2-3 minutes is on the verge of gamebreaking becuase ALL I NEED TO DO is kill the AT gun or boys AT and I control the entire map! At that point, the only thing stopping me is the allied base defenses.

An even more ridiculous thing is the comparison between allies and axis early game vehicles. Let's take a jeep for example. Costs 240 MP and has a pea-shooter for a gun that will never kill any axis infantry. The only reason US players build jeeps is because it is a soft counter vs a bike or schwimm. Sometimes the jeep will win in a fight vs one.

But here's another thing. Take a jeep shooting at a bike, and at the same time, there are engineers repairing the jeep and pioneers repairing the bike. The bike will win 100% of the time because the bike damages the jeep faster than the engineers can repair it. Also, simply by shooting at the jeep, the engineers will become suppressed, and sometimes pinned. The bike could also target the engineers and kill them all in about 1 second, because they are repairing and thus "vulnerable". The jeep, on the other hand, if it targets the pioneers, will maybe kill 1 or 2, but that's it. It will die before killing any more.

Furthermore, because of the scout car, allied players are FORCED to build AT, and spend resources on it and position it to prepare for a scout car that a PE player might not even have built. If the allies don't build AT, and a scout car comes, they lose control of the entire map. Meanwhile, axis players are NEVER forced to build AT, because they don't need it. A jeep is just a nuisance to axis infantry, not a threat.

[Warhawks97]

This is one of the largest factors that I feel backs the "axis are OP" argument. It's the early game.

Allies are supposed to be the ones that are always attacking, always on the move, and always pressuring the enemy, while the Axis are supposedly building defenses and slowly going towards their heavy tanks.

But in game, it is very different. In early game, axis are ALWAYS on the attack, simply because of 4 units: Motorcycle, Schwimmwagen, Scout Car, and Kettenkrad.

These units are DEATH ON WHEELS. They ANNIHILATE every allied infantry unit! In seconds! If you are caught in open ground vs one of these vehicles, you must retreat, or else you will lose your unit completely. Even a 435 MP Infantry Section gets FUCKED by a 220 MP bike. It's ridiculous.

Then you have all the axis fanboys saying "Just go to green heavy cover". So you want the allied units to just wait behind cover for an enemy vehicle to come that might not even be there? In the game, early allied units are going to be capturing points or moving up.

What's even worse is PE. They cap ridiculously fast because the kettenkrad has a very fast cap rate + it is a vehicle, which means it moves very very fast compared to allies who must run around engineers to cap slowly or a lieutenant. What happens to these units? Good players will hunt them down using their vehicles. A bike or schwimm will just go behind enemy lines and find the lieutenant and engineers. It's so ridiculous that these units cannot even retreat before being gunned down by the MG on the axis vehicles.

You know why I am so mad? Because I do this ALL THE TIME. I LOVE playing PE because it is so dirty and cheap. My early game units completely OWN the battlefield. ESPECIALLY once I get a scout car out, a bulletproof vehicle, which usually takes about 2 minutes from game start.

There are exactly 2 units that can destroy a scout car in early game. Boys AT and and the US 37mm AT Gun. Microing around an AT gun is easy. And if a player wants to camoflage the AT Gun, well, then I get control of every other part of the map that doesn't have that AT gun. As for boys AT? They cost 270 MP, which is more than a schwimm and the AT gun and often performs much worse. They have incredibly bad accuracy, and often times will lose a fight vs any of the early game axis vehicles.

Boys AT in the open with no cover? 100% will lose vs early game axis vehicles.

Boys AT behind heavy cover? They will miss their first shot 75% of the time, and what I do is shoot at them in between their shots, and right before the boys AT fires, I move my vehicle, and because the boys AT has terribly bad accuracy vs moving units, they will miss. Then I shoot at them again and repeat the cycle. Then the boys AT dies. The 270 MP unit that was DESIGNED to kill my early game vehicles and is more expensive than a bike and schwimm just lost in a fight vs them.

The scout car is the worst, because it is bulletproof. Having a bulletproof vehicle in the game after usually 2-3 minutes is on the verge of gamebreaking becuase ALL I NEED TO DO is kill the AT gun or boys AT and I control the entire map! At that point, the only thing stopping me is the allied base defenses.

An even more ridiculous thing is the comparison between allies and axis early game vehicles. Let's take a jeep for example. Costs 240 MP and has a pea-shooter for a gun that will never kill any axis infantry. The only reason US players build jeeps is because it is a soft counter vs a bike or schwimm. Sometimes the jeep will win in a fight vs one.

But here's another thing. Take a jeep shooting at a bike, and at the same time, there are engineers repairing the jeep and pioneers repairing the bike. The bike will win 100% of the time because the bike damages the jeep faster than the engineers can repair it. Also, simply by shooting at the jeep, the engineers will become suppressed, and sometimes pinned. The bike could also target the engineers and kill them all in about 1 second, because they are repairing and thus "vulnerable". The jeep, on the other hand, if it targets the pioneers, will maybe kill 1 or 2, but that's it. It will die before killing any more.

Furthermore, because of the scout car, allied players are FORCED to build AT, and spend resources on it and position it to prepare for a scout car that a PE player might not even have built. If the allies don't build AT, and a scout car comes, they lose control of the entire map. Meanwhile, axis players are NEVER forced to build AT, because they don't need it. A jeep is just a nuisance to axis infantry, not a threat.

i do this every game. Its a bit stupid that i have to prepare for everything as allied. Means paks vs vehicle, sniper vs HMG and best a normal inf squad. I seldomly try to push in eary game except i know my enemie very good and when i know that he doesnt build scout cars then i can do jeep+2 rifles for better push. As axis i build only volks spam and they are good against everything.

Last time as WE i rushed till enemie base when i managed to finish of the boys AT. I forced several units to retreat during capture attempts. The base def finally killed my bike. Map was dust and stones. Also schwimm beats Boys AT behind yellow cover. Sometimes the schwimmwagen destroys the yellow cover if it is a bush with the first burst and the second kills the squad:D


Also with PE i use schwimmwagen, grens and pak for attack (pak vs enemie HMG and enemie pak with HE rounds). Then krad to cap fast and scout car to finish the enemie. Works basically on every map.


Would be nice if bren etc would axis also force to build at if they dont want to lose the inf and if those brens etc could also effectively deny enemie inf movment.

You also forgot another important point. When i see as axis that a mate needs some help i simply send schwimmwagen or scout car, do one burst and the enemie unit that made trouble needs to retreat. As allied i often dont know how to help my mate when he is losing his side. In fact i have to send all my army because a single inf squad would get raped and jeep... does no damage against inf. But if i then send my army to my mate to hold his line then my side is completely unprotected. Once again tactical usefullness. I never have to expose my area as axis to help my mate and i just have to send a scout car or volks.

And as you mentioned, due to quick capturing, enemie movment denying and early pressure a good BK player can get Tank IV´s in 10 mins as finisher.

[MarKr]

This issue seems to be with us for a very long time. Final decision is up to Wolf but I'll try to push through some balance changes for Bike/Schwimm/Jeep/Scout car in the next patch.

[Sukin-kot (SVT)]

Im not sure that something must be changed with vehicles, especialy with scout car and schwim, its a feature of PE motorize faction, and yes, it gives advantage in the beginning, but why nobody whine than that alies have vehicle advantage after 5+ mins? Recce is badass as hell, and comes very early, search and kill reacons with infantry, overun paks, if you didnt build schrecks or pak 38 you will also loose the entrire map, only good counter is PE 28mm car, it also have INSANE sight in raf doc, and how much is iy cost? 5 more fuel than scout car,usa vehicles comes later than pe once, but much deadlier (Grayhound, quad cal, Halftruck with zooks inside), should we nerf it all for "balace reasons"? No, that exactly what makes BK mod interesting, different gameplay for different factions, moreover this "vehicle with MG42 kiils my rifles which are staying in open field omg why its unbalanced" is simple BS, learn to cover your units guys, if rifles are behing even yellow cover (but good one) they will never loose against schwim. And simply, what you can change in them? Nerf damage and make it as stupid as jeep? Or hp? Bike dies with 1 at boys shot, schwim with 1 mg burst, also jeep kills both in duel. Have you ever tryed british daimler? (instead recce) its bulletproof and comes even earlier than Scout cat, axis FORCED to build AT in early game to kill it. Or jeep with recoiless? also good against scout cars.

Balance is ok and i STRONGLY advice to mark and wolf not to change any early units values, the only true bad thing is usa jeep and mg damage, they must be tweaked a lil bit. Thats it.

"One players got beaten in pvp by unit X\Y, comes on forum and start to whine about it".

Try different tactics guys, british build: 2 at boys, mg, mortar nest is unbeatable until mortar truck will arrive. (but u need good micro of course)

[MarKr]

Ehm...By my previous post, I meant primarily this:

usa jeep and mg damage, they must be tweaked a lil bit.

Of course an option would be to nerf the Axis vicles but it seems better to just buff a little bit the jeep. I can already see some problems connected to it but we'll see .

Anyway...

moreover this "vehicle with MG42 kiils my rifles which are staying in open field omg why its unbalanced" is simple BS, learn to cover your units guys

This is caused because in comparison to US Jeep (which was and should be Bike's counterpart). Just think about it - your situation in the quote box and compare it to the same situation but Jeep against Volks or Panzer grenadiers. They can run in front of the Jeep without any cover and still the Jeep kills one with luck. True, Jeep can take out Bike/Schwimm in 1v1 combat, but Bike/Schwimm works more like a substitutions for HMG team (in terms of firepower and supression) but it is also extremely movable.
So I can understand why people keep complaining about Jeep.

Bike dies with 1 at boys shot

True, but BOYS would need to hit it first

[Warhawks97]

I sometimes encounter a Daimler or Bren carrier but all i have to do then is to run towards it in order to throw at nade or molotov. Also when face some i just ignore them with my inf and keep pushing and fighting enemie inf and HMGS. I dont care if there is a bren carrier, jeep or whatever is behind me. I start Pak production first when it shoots my inf and during the time i build my 37 mm pak and pushing them over half the map the bren kills (with good luck) one of my volks, thats it.


Also schwimm beats rifles with yellow cover and sometimes the schwimm destroys the cover with its mg. It also survives 3 hits from Boys AT.

So as axis i dont need to stay behind cover or i dont have to build at unless i face a bren in combat. As allied i can retreat all my units when i spott a scout car and no AT right at time at the place avaialble. I cant just wait behind cover and wait untill my pak is build and moved to front.

And why is Recce Bad ass? every smart PE player has 28 mm before it comes. Also PE can get vehicle with 20 mm kwk as early as CW gets recce and also 50 mm paks. WE may have a bit more trouble as pak 38 comes just in time but PE has no prob. Also with Damage output difference? Jeep is vcoh crap. Also PE is still special even when bren and Jeeps MG´s would become BK stats (and not voch stats which it seems to be). PE will still have the first transport HT which cost could be cheaper, 37 mm on HT, 28 mm scout vehicle, early Mortar, first AT squad, first Medium pak etc. So PE will remain clearly special in terms of vehicles even when Bren and Jeeps weapons would become real Weapons. And the silly 1 vs 1 comparision. If you want then adjust the TT´s so that schwimm and jeep beats each other in 1 vs 1 so just fucking do it. But make jeeps and brens MG´s into MG´s. and BTW all of those very light vehicles take too much damage. They sometimes survive bursts of quad 20 mm or cal 50 salvos. In a game against sukin his schwimmwagen received just minor damage from a short Burst of my M15A1. Anyway.

And what exactly is better on US vehicles? I prefer the vehicles with 20 mm kw any day. They are cheaper and better armord. In that game we played at dust and stones the Greyhound from MG42slo bounced twice on my Puma. I did a short burst and greyhound was done. The two PE vehicles with 20 mm kwk (one of them is the reward) and the WE puma are my absoult favorits. Cheap as VT´s, best vehicle armor (30 mm), nice speed and deadly against inf and Vehicles and meanwhile cheaper than M16 (which is only good vs inf) and by far Cheaper than Greyhound. So US are not the best oO.

Also why do i need to learn how to cover my units when i play allis but as axis i can run accross the map in early game without any cover? Running into and MG... just turn arround, crouch out of the range and try another way. Jeep etc..... ignore it. This is abit imbalanced in early game in my opinion.

Also i watched the game in steam beta and two schwimmwagens simply guarded a way into the town and killing several vet commandos, sappers and birts rifle sections with weapon upgrades or giving fire support and deny any attempt of commandos to capture a point and after fight they repair each other. They even used the Typhoon rocket strike to kill those two schwimmwagens....
What would you and some others say if two jeeps (cal 30) would simply guard and protect a street and some important points and killing all the stormtoopers and Grenadiers? The forum would be instantly full of threads complaining that two jeeps killed all the grens and stormtoopers.
Two schwimms killing rangers, AB Ranger, commandos and SAS... almost business as usual. I mean there was one Vet 3 commando squad with stgs and simply shred away oO. Schwimms damaged but then repairing each other.

[Sukin-kot (SVT)]

Schwim can survive 2 hits from at boys ( 3 if lucky) but also repairing time is four time longer than jeep or bike. Two 50. cal jeeps (especialy bulletproof airborn) also can eliminate storms or grens, just like scwims. The thing is im against of nerfing units which are working in this mod for ages, just because players getting rid of them after nerf. (Nobody used terror after kch and nebels nerf, scots, stuhs, stupa are very rare). Btw yesterday we have 2 hour game on Montargi, mg42 used stupa instead Grille, and highest score it could reach was 10 kills and 1 vehicle ( rebuilt it 4 or 5 times). Plot was like "2 inf doc at squads running into stupa, it fires, kills 1-2 men, 6 zooks barrage and stupa is gone" or "Achiles driving right on Stupa, stupa hit the dirt in front M10, then one shoted". So, im all for buffing jeep, but dont touch units which are working good. With buffed jeep adjust its damage against bike and schwim, or it will be too superior to them.

P.S. About stupa, how about to make standart tank range for it, but return high accuracy and one shoting squads thing, lets make it alive again. Scots can be cheaper, or more accurate also, just compare it to sherman, 400 mp and 50 fuel vs 300 mp and 30 fuel, sherman can survive up to 4 schrecks, more accurate, have 3mgs and supress ability...

[Wake]

Two 50. cal jeeps (especialy bulletproof airborn) also can eliminate storms or grens, just like scwims.

50 Cal Jeep costs 280 MP, and the airborne armored one costs 320 MP, and they both require a WSC to build, and by the time that happens, axis have been given PLENTY of time to get AT. Schwimm and bike can be built right away for cheaper prices.

Furthermore, the axis will ALWAYS have a way to counter these early allied vehicles. PE Panzergrenadiers get AT grenades from the start of the game, and volks get a brandflasche after skirmish phase researched. They are hard to actually kill vehicles with but it's something. Add to this the light Pak 36 or the many other AT options the axis get.

Compare that to the allies. They have exactly 2 units that are capable of killing early axis vehicles like a scout car: boys AT and the light AT gun.

Simply put, an axis player can drive up a scout car to allied infantry and leave it there and go look somewhere else. 30 seconds later the allied squad will be dead, guaranteed. If an allied player drives an armored 50 cal jeep up to an axis infantry squad and looks somewhere else, it will be gone because it got destroyed by an AT grenade or brandflasche.

It's the same thing with the Recce, axis have PLENTY of AT options to deal with that by the time it comes out. Your argument is bad.

Furthermore, the dingo bren gun can't kill anything. It might be bulletproof, but it will take probably 2-3 minutes of constantly shooting at a volks squad to kill it, while a bike can kill a bunched up riflemen squad in less than 3 seconds in certain situations.

[Warhawks97]

Schwim can survive 2 hits from at boys ( 3 if lucky) but also repairing time is four time longer than jeep or bike. Two 50. cal jeeps (especialy bulletproof airborn) also can eliminate storms or grens, just like scwims. The thing is im against of nerfing units which are working in this mod for ages, just because players getting rid of them after nerf. (Nobody used terror after kch and nebels nerf, scots, stuhs, stupa are very rare). Btw yesterday we have 2 hour game on Montargi, mg42 used stupa instead Grille, and highest score it could reach was 10 kills and 1 vehicle ( rebuilt it 4 or 5 times). Plot was like "2 inf doc at squads running into stupa, it fires, kills 1-2 men, 6 zooks barrage and stupa is gone" or "Achiles driving right on Stupa, stupa hit the dirt in front M10, then one shoted". So, im all for buffing jeep, but dont touch units which are working good. With buffed jeep adjust its damage against bike and schwim, or it will be too superior to them.

P.S. About stupa, how about to make standart tank range for it, but return high accuracy and one shoting squads thing, lets make it alive again. Scots can be cheaper, or more accurate also, just compare it to sherman, 400 mp and 50 fuel vs 300 mp and 30 fuel, sherman can survive up to 4 schrecks, more accurate, have 3mgs and supress ability...

buff jeep vs inf so that it works like an real MG. Adjust TT´s vs schwimm etc to make it not OP.
cal 50 jeeps coming a way later and dont suppress inf. And coming not right at the beginning to dominate and deny the very early inf movment which is an important tactical advantage at that stage of a game.


About stuhs and Stupa: yeah, give it tank range, reduce cost if neccessary (increase stuh armor to stug standard) and Stupa could/would need new doc as it wouldnt be a long range anti everything defensive rolling fortress anymore and as def would not be able to provide sufficient inf support.

scott, yeah could become a bit cheaper maybe. I havent seen this vehicle for a while and a sherman is cheaper and better in armor doc. I almost forgot that this unit exist.

[Sukin-kot (SVT)]

You didnt get my point man. Thats not correct fo compare one units with another ( this unit have at, those not, this have good damage, those bad damage and etc. ) Because there are many units which are better/worse than their counterparts, usa have earliest automatical weapons m3, british mortar nest is someting that can lock down big sector at the begining, sappers which always come at center first and taking best positions, etc. and etc. thats not the thingz which must be "balanced", as i already said, they makes gameplay different and fun. I personaly never had problems with scwims/bike/scout cars, alies need better team coordination, also playstyle is different at the beginning, you must keep your forces as 1 big fist, especialy as brit player ( 2 at boys, mg and sappers together) all axis trys to rush it in the beginning will fail with big loses, than mortar + recce, move all stuff forward = you control the middle. I sometimes eliminate all early Pe build: grens + schwim + scout car + pak even without loosing a single man.

[Sukin-kot (SVT)]

@Warhawks. Well, ye, stupa must be in other doc ( with reduced range, but old accuracy and damage), because Grille fits def doc very good and there is no need in reward for it. But stuh no, its ok right now, usefull only for breaking paks and nests, damage and armor is not comparable to Stupa, normal range will kill this unit completely, against inf there is a good ostwind, tanks.... stuh will not be able to handle them. So, let it stay as a pak crasher.

[Warhawks97]

@Warhawks. Well, ye, stupa must be in other doc ( with reduced range, but old accuracy and damage), because Grille fits def doc very good and there is no need in reward for it. But stuh no, its ok right now, usefull only for breaking paks and nests, damage and armor is not comparable to Stupa, normal range will kill this unit completely, against inf there is a good ostwind, tanks.... stuh will not be able to handle them. So, let it stay as a pak crasher.

Well i dont need stuh to crush paks. I have off map mortar, strong sneaky assault units and sometimes i simply overrun paks with combined tank force. Sometimes a maultier is good enough.

I said the stuh would be cheap assault gun. 350 MP and 40 fuel. It would close in, crush the enemie unit with a single shot and drive back a bit. Would be very cool and i dont need that range. Its boring for me and so i dont really use stuhs. Sometimes just for fun when a game is lost or won already.

[jonnyyankee]

This is one of the largest factors that I feel backs the "axis are OP" argument. It's the early game.

Allies are supposed to be the ones that are always attacking, always on the move, and always pressuring the enemy, while the Axis are supposedly building defenses and slowly going towards their heavy tanks.

But in game, it is very different. In early game, axis are ALWAYS on the attack, simply because of 4 units: Motorcycle, Schwimmwagen, Scout Car, and Kettenkrad.

These units are DEATH ON WHEELS. They ANNIHILATE every allied infantry unit! In seconds! If you are caught in open ground vs one of these vehicles, you must retreat, or else you will lose your unit completely. Even a 435 MP Infantry Section gets FUCKED by a 220 MP bike. It's ridiculous.

Then you have all the axis fanboys saying "Just go to green heavy cover". So you want the allied units to just wait behind cover for an enemy vehicle to come that might not even be there? In the game, early allied units are going to be capturing points or moving up.

What's even worse is PE. They cap ridiculously fast because the kettenkrad has a very fast cap rate + it is a vehicle, which means it moves very very fast compared to allies who must run around engineers to cap slowly or a lieutenant. What happens to these units? Good players will hunt them down using their vehicles. A bike or schwimm will just go behind enemy lines and find the lieutenant and engineers. It's so ridiculous that these units cannot even retreat before being gunned down by the MG on the axis vehicles.

You know why I am so mad? Because I do this ALL THE TIME. I LOVE playing PE because it is so dirty and cheap. My early game units completely OWN the battlefield. ESPECIALLY once I get a scout car out, a bulletproof vehicle, which usually takes about 2 minutes from game start.

There are exactly 2 units that can destroy a scout car in early game. Boys AT and and the US 37mm AT Gun. Microing around an AT gun is easy. And if a player wants to camoflage the AT Gun, well, then I get control of every other part of the map that doesn't have that AT gun. As for boys AT? They cost 270 MP, which is more than a schwimm and the AT gun and often performs much worse. They have incredibly bad accuracy, and often times will lose a fight vs any of the early game axis vehicles.

Boys AT in the open with no cover? 100% will lose vs early game axis vehicles.

Boys AT behind heavy cover? They will miss their first shot 75% of the time, and what I do is shoot at them in between their shots, and right before the boys AT fires, I move my vehicle, and because the boys AT has terribly bad accuracy vs moving units, they will miss. Then I shoot at them again and repeat the cycle. Then the boys AT dies. The 270 MP unit that was DESIGNED to kill my early game vehicles and is more expensive than a bike and schwimm just lost in a fight vs them.

The scout car is the worst, because it is bulletproof. Having a bulletproof vehicle in the game after usually 2-3 minutes is on the verge of gamebreaking becuase ALL I NEED TO DO is kill the AT gun or boys AT and I control the entire map! At that point, the only thing stopping me is the allied base defenses.

An even more ridiculous thing is the comparison between allies and axis early game vehicles. Let's take a jeep for example. Costs 240 MP and has a pea-shooter for a gun that will never kill any axis infantry. The only reason US players build jeeps is because it is a soft counter vs a bike or schwimm. Sometimes the jeep will win in a fight vs one.

But here's another thing. Take a jeep shooting at a bike, and at the same time, there are engineers repairing the jeep and pioneers repairing the bike. The bike will win 100% of the time because the bike damages the jeep faster than the engineers can repair it. Also, simply by shooting at the jeep, the engineers will become suppressed, and sometimes pinned. The bike could also target the engineers and kill them all in about 1 second, because they are repairing and thus "vulnerable". The jeep, on the other hand, if it targets the pioneers, will maybe kill 1 or 2, but that's it. It will die before killing any more.

Furthermore, because of the scout car, allied players are FORCED to build AT, and spend resources on it and position it to prepare for a scout car that a PE player might not even have built. If the allies don't build AT, and a scout car comes, they lose control of the entire map. Meanwhile, axis players are NEVER forced to build AT, because they don't need it. A jeep is just a nuisance to axis infantry, not a threat.

I agreed with you in all aspects .. i hope Wolf can resolve this in the next patch