Rework of Defensive Doctrine - Concept
Posted: 17 Aug 2017, 13:06
Hello,
as some of you know i've been working on a def doc rework for a while now. Time to present my suggestion.
Warning - Very long post!!!
This contains some edits in response to feedback and questions from MarKr ()who has seen a almost finished draft and provided some insights to it.
Rework of Defensive Doctrine:
Preamble:
Why a rework of the Defense Doctrine? Apparently some of our users feel that this doctrine is without real purpose, unfocused and not logically structured. This has led to complaints about Defensive Doctrine being a bad choice.
This rework is aimed at changing the doctrine completely, to not only alleviate those issues but also give some unique game play to this branch of the Wehrmacht – apparently, there isn’t enough diversity in the Axis doctrines compared to the Allies.
Aim of this rework:
Here I shall try to outline my vision of a defensive-focused doctrine that incorporates unique game play and faction design with iconic pieces of technology that I feel are somewhat under-represented in the context of their historical abundance. Some points have been mentioned before, by me and others and some have previously been rejected by the modding team for various reasons – however, in the context of this large-scale project these ideas might be more valid than as a standalone design choice and have merits of their own which haven’t been obvious (or even required) before.
This will take some massive wall-of-text-reading on your part and I might need more than one post, so please bear with me as you follow me down into the rabbit-hole that is my mind for a journey to weird-town.
Core Design Concept:
- Defensive Doctrine should be a support doctrine with a focus on holding owned territory and supporting the team with basic units and artillery support during pushes and in the late game phase
- the doctrine is not designed as a 1v1 duel choice and will suffer from a weak early-game and a lack of elite units as well as heavy vehicles during later stages
- its core design revolves around the use of basic units in combination with fortifications and doctrine-based upgrades to survive, then help out by securing territory and delivering precise, hard-hitting artillery support from a safe base of operations
Changes to Reward Units:
- Choose between Jagdpanzer IV/48 (pure AT) OR Stug III Ausf. G (slightly less powerful vs. Tank but
has an MG)
- Pantherturm (lower vision range of 20 if not garrisoned so you would need at least another unit
nearby to spot targets or have one inside the Pantherturm, no HE rounds, expensive but durable)
OR Pak 40 emplacement (cheaper, has higher vision range and can use HE rounds but less durable)
- Sturmpanzer IV (Heavy armor, has free direct fire; available in T4 building) OR Sturmpanzer 38(t) (light armor, shots cost ammo but
has indirect shot AND direct shot, participates in Officer's Victor Target; available in T3 building)
Change to Doctrine Tree:
(Notice: I can’t make Icons, so I’ll do this as text – I hope that someone with decent art-skills can make cool new Icons for this stuff if implementation is greenlit)
Layout for reference:
1 – 2 – 3 – 4
5 – 6 – 7 – 8
9 – 10 – 11 – 12
13 – 14 – 15 – 16
1. “Basic Tank Destroyers” (2CP) Unlocks JP IV/48 or StuG III Ausf. G (reward choice)
2. “Sector Reinforcements (2CP)” Call-In with 2 Volksgrenadiers and a Stug IV for 800 MP
3. “Jagdpanzer IV/70” (2CP) Unlocks the JP IV/70
4. “Jagdpanzer Tiger P Elefant” (3 CP) allows to build the Elefant Tankhunter from the Heavy Tank
Factory
6. “Fortify the Perimeter” (1CP) Upgrades Base Buildings with MG’s, increases build speed of
Pioneers by 20% total; enables reinforcement at bunkers and medic bunkers
7. “Sector Security” (1CP) Upgrades all Listening Posts: -50% Damage from small arms fire, +50%
Sight range, gains vampir ability over range of 30 (camouflaged units appear on the minimap); All
mines become 33% cheaper
5. “Cover & Fight training” (2CP) Stays like it is now, but with half the bonus it currently provides; This
bonus gets doubled when in friendly territory
9. “Advanced Defense Tactics” (2CP) Pioneers get the same rifle as Volksgrenadiers, can lay Teller
Mines and can be upgraded with MP40’s; Dropped: Volksgrenadiers fire 2 Panzerfausts instead of 1 per use
Replace: Volksgrenadier-Squads already delployed AND newly built OR called-in have the Panzerfaust upgrade by default
to compensate for the lack of Panzerschrecks in the doctrine
Explanation: Without Grenadiers, it's only possible to get 4 Panzerschreck by means of the 2 AT-Squads. Those are still a valuable
option due to the ambush ability, so no change needed here
10.”For the Fatherland” (1 CP) Enables the use of the “For the Fatherland” global ability
8. “Field Fortifications” (2 CP) Pioneers can build Bunkers at reduced cost; Unlocks the Pak 40
Emplacement
12.”Heavy Fortifications” (2CP) unlocks the PAK43 emplacement, Tank traps cost reduced from 25MP
to 15MP
11.”Improved emplacements” (2CP) All emplacement (not the crew!) get +50% HP and take reduced
damage from all sources except demo-charges and satchels
Explanation: With the new smoke options and some other changes to the disadvantage ob emplacements lately, I feel
that emplacements without improvements in later stages might not be worth building
13. “lFh 18 105mm Howitzer” (2CP) Unlocks both emplaced and non-emplaced lFh 18
14. “Rapid Response Artillery” (2CP) Unlocks the “Registered Artillery” ability
15. “Flak 36 88mm Artillery” (2CP) Unlocks both emplaced and non-emplaced 88mm Flak 36
16. “sFH 18 150mm Artillery Salvo” (2CP) Unlocks the 150mm off-map artillery
Changes to unit selection:
- has only Volksgrenadiers as fighting infantry, Grenadiers are removed
Explanation:
I want this doctrine to fulfill a more support-oriented role. Grenadiers with their high base stats, matching other factions
elite units in some cases, would profit so much from all the buffs that they become an assault force by themselves. This has
in fact been proven by several players and is not my intention for a support doctrine focusing on holding territory and using
arty, emplacements and tank hunters. You will still be able to move in behind a sector has been cleared by your team and
them make sure the enemy will have a hard time taking it back by building defenses, digging in and laying mines as well as
create forward healing stations for your mates to fall back to.
- Officer gets a guard squad of 3 Volksgrenadier-soldiers, armed with G43 to enable the use of the
officer on the frontlines as support for the combat units
- vehicle choice restricted to SdKfz. 251-based units, removal of all Puma-variations
- can build both the cm Pak38 AND the le.IG18 from the T2-building
- movable Pak43 removed, instead becomes available as emplacement
Explanation:
At over 3,5 of weight (the Pak 40 weighs 1,5t)this just doesn’t make sense as a mobile unit, this thing had to
be moved by truck. Therefore, the only reasonable use is in the form of an emplacement.
- Unit cap on Möbelwagen removed
Explanation:
I don’t get that limit at all – Flakpanzer 38(t) has no limit, neither has the Halftrack with 2cm AA, both are
more flexible because you don’t have to switch modes and are cheaper
- shared unit cap on 105mm and 88mm guns (4 each)
Changes to structures:
- Get’s the T4 building back, now contains the following units: Jagdpanzer IV/70, Tankhunter Elefant (after it’s unlocked in the doctrine)
Explanation:
Why a buildable Elefant? In my opinion, after most German doctrines get their heavy and super heavy Tanks (a category in
which in this case the Elefant would fit in between) buildable in their respective T4, I feel the Tank Hunter Tiger a.k.a.
Elefant shouldn’t get the special treatment as a call-in. Also, a cheaper Call-in that is useable earlier might benefit game
play more than having a very expensive late game unit which is very slow and highly specialized. If the game drags on to
the point where you can make good use of the Elefant you can just as well build it, but if things go bad saving up the
1500MP to get it will only make you lose faster because you lose presence on the field and even when you get it you
probably won’t turn the game around with it because it’s slow, much less durable than a JT and can’t do anything vs.
infantry.
- changes to the bunkers: cost dropped to 300MP, after the unlock down to 250MP; Dropped: Upgrades get mostly removed (only repair bunker and observation bunker stay; observation bunker increases the vision range of units inside instead of having huge vision itself; no vision range when not garrisoned), bunkers (so if Allies clear a bunker it can now be ignored – the high resistance to damage therefore isn’t an issue anymore and can be left alone, also you can now demo it without being seen all the time). Reinforcement only works while a bunker is garrisoned so you actually need units for defense now instead of just bunkers.
Replace: Bunkers become exclusive to Defensive Doctrine, Blitzkrieg and Terror Doctrines get a Repair Station instead (same model as before) at much lower cost and lower durability. MG upgrade stays, Feuerleitbunker is removed. However, sight range of bunker is reduced to 10 so once all garrisoned infantry and units in the area are taken out it becomes a lot easier to sneak up and demolish it, even if upgraded with an MG. Observation Bunker upgrade increases the vision range of units inside instead of having huge vision itself. Repair Bunker can't be garrisoned.
- Healing Station is replaced by a complete medic bunker which is also very durable, but can’t be garrisoned. The medics can be killed to slow casualty-collection, but the structure itself is very robust and can always be used to reinforce after the doctrine unlock
- Listening Post: After Doctrine unlock, it gets 50% damage reduction from small arms fire and a large increase in vision range as well as short detection range (like the Vampir, displays stealthed enemies on the minimap without actually revealing the unit so the enemy isn’t immediately aware that his cover is blown)
This creates some issues with the build menu space, which is why some changes are required to make it like this:
Changes to Tech:
-once you reach “Escalate to Assault Phase”, all Volksgrenadier-Leaders get a G43 instead of the K98k, also all Volksgrenadiers get the option to upgrade to G43 (instead of MP40) at 2x 40ammo (for 2 rifles/upgrade)
Explanation:
Why this upgrade? WTF???
Well, since there’s no heavy infantry, the basic stuff needs to somehow be able to scale up during
the game. In addition to the stats-buffs from doctrinal unlocks and the officer, a better rifle is
required; the G43 was produced almost half a million times from ’43 to ’45 (more than the Stg44),
but in the game it’s much less present than the Stg44 which is available for both axis factions over
multiple doctrines and almost always a “must-have buy”. Because of this I decided that this
doctrine would be an ideal place for this rifle to shine (as there are no Stg44-options for ANY unit
here)
- Upon reaching T4, the Officer squad gets the victor target ability without an extra unlock in the
doctrine tree
Changes to Global abilities:
- Adds a new Call-In: Reserve Reinforcements (Delivers 2 Volksgrenadiers w/ Panzerfaust-Upgrades and a StuG IV) for 800 MP, 300 seconds cooldown
- Change Rocket Barrage into a “sFH18-Barrage” at identical cost; drops 3 series of 6 150mm shells; 1st shells hit after 3 sec, 6 shells fall quickly (5secs), the after 4 secs delay another 6 in 5 secs, then again after 4 secs another 6 shells in 5 secs. This should kill anything in its target radius just like the current rockets but also fits better with the theme of Gun-Artillery in this doctrine (the rocket salvo should be used in Terror, as they have all the fancy rocket arty)
Explanation:
Originally calulated to 18 shells because the sFh18 was used in 6-gun batteries and I was thinking of 3 shots per gun. However, Long Tom uses 9
shells of comparable power - therefore going down to 3 salvos of 3 shells each might be better (so 9 total as well)
- Registered Artillery: Currently unlock together with the 280mm Rocket Salve; Change it to unlock with “Rapid Response Artillery”, drop cost from 125
ammo to 80 ammo (very good value due to relative power of the strike within its not so small area of effect).
Balance changes:
- fix damage values of Tiger and Flak 36 to match at 135-165 (same as Pak 43 etc. – same caliber!)
This seems to cause some disagreements. At least the damagedealt by Flak 36 and Tiger should be the same, as the gun is identical
and the ammo is identical as well - a difference here make no sense at all. Having the 88mm/L71 guns have higher damage AND better penetration
isn't exactly reasonable but if most people feel that it has to have more power then I can live with that - tuning can be done later once playtesting
reveals if there are any issues
- make sure that the 88mm/L71 has higher penetration than the 88mm/L56 in all cases
- Change G43 damage to match K98k, as both rifles used the same ammunition; since the version used here has no scope it's accuracy
should be less good on long range, but rate of fire is higher (basically works like the M1 Garand)
EDIT: 1st round of editing is done, changes in light blue. Please consider and give new feedback. btw, the vote allows you to change your choice, so is can be updated to reflect current opinions.
as some of you know i've been working on a def doc rework for a while now. Time to present my suggestion.
Warning - Very long post!!!
This contains some edits in response to feedback and questions from MarKr ()who has seen a almost finished draft and provided some insights to it.
Rework of Defensive Doctrine:
Preamble:
Why a rework of the Defense Doctrine? Apparently some of our users feel that this doctrine is without real purpose, unfocused and not logically structured. This has led to complaints about Defensive Doctrine being a bad choice.
This rework is aimed at changing the doctrine completely, to not only alleviate those issues but also give some unique game play to this branch of the Wehrmacht – apparently, there isn’t enough diversity in the Axis doctrines compared to the Allies.
Aim of this rework:
Here I shall try to outline my vision of a defensive-focused doctrine that incorporates unique game play and faction design with iconic pieces of technology that I feel are somewhat under-represented in the context of their historical abundance. Some points have been mentioned before, by me and others and some have previously been rejected by the modding team for various reasons – however, in the context of this large-scale project these ideas might be more valid than as a standalone design choice and have merits of their own which haven’t been obvious (or even required) before.
This will take some massive wall-of-text-reading on your part and I might need more than one post, so please bear with me as you follow me down into the rabbit-hole that is my mind for a journey to weird-town.
Core Design Concept:
- Defensive Doctrine should be a support doctrine with a focus on holding owned territory and supporting the team with basic units and artillery support during pushes and in the late game phase
- the doctrine is not designed as a 1v1 duel choice and will suffer from a weak early-game and a lack of elite units as well as heavy vehicles during later stages
- its core design revolves around the use of basic units in combination with fortifications and doctrine-based upgrades to survive, then help out by securing territory and delivering precise, hard-hitting artillery support from a safe base of operations
Changes to Reward Units:
- Choose between Jagdpanzer IV/48 (pure AT) OR Stug III Ausf. G (slightly less powerful vs. Tank but
has an MG)
- Pantherturm (lower vision range of 20 if not garrisoned so you would need at least another unit
nearby to spot targets or have one inside the Pantherturm, no HE rounds, expensive but durable)
OR Pak 40 emplacement (cheaper, has higher vision range and can use HE rounds but less durable)
- Sturmpanzer IV (Heavy armor, has free direct fire; available in T4 building) OR Sturmpanzer 38(t) (light armor, shots cost ammo but
has indirect shot AND direct shot, participates in Officer's Victor Target; available in T3 building)
Change to Doctrine Tree:
(Notice: I can’t make Icons, so I’ll do this as text – I hope that someone with decent art-skills can make cool new Icons for this stuff if implementation is greenlit)
Layout for reference:
1 – 2 – 3 – 4
5 – 6 – 7 – 8
9 – 10 – 11 – 12
13 – 14 – 15 – 16
1. “Basic Tank Destroyers” (2CP) Unlocks JP IV/48 or StuG III Ausf. G (reward choice)
2. “Sector Reinforcements (2CP)” Call-In with 2 Volksgrenadiers and a Stug IV for 800 MP
3. “Jagdpanzer IV/70” (2CP) Unlocks the JP IV/70
4. “Jagdpanzer Tiger P Elefant” (3 CP) allows to build the Elefant Tankhunter from the Heavy Tank
Factory
6. “Fortify the Perimeter” (1CP) Upgrades Base Buildings with MG’s, increases build speed of
Pioneers by 20% total; enables reinforcement at bunkers and medic bunkers
7. “Sector Security” (1CP) Upgrades all Listening Posts: -50% Damage from small arms fire, +50%
Sight range, gains vampir ability over range of 30 (camouflaged units appear on the minimap); All
mines become 33% cheaper
5. “Cover & Fight training” (2CP) Stays like it is now, but with half the bonus it currently provides; This
bonus gets doubled when in friendly territory
9. “Advanced Defense Tactics” (2CP) Pioneers get the same rifle as Volksgrenadiers, can lay Teller
Mines and can be upgraded with MP40’s; Dropped: Volksgrenadiers fire 2 Panzerfausts instead of 1 per use
Replace: Volksgrenadier-Squads already delployed AND newly built OR called-in have the Panzerfaust upgrade by default
to compensate for the lack of Panzerschrecks in the doctrine
Explanation: Without Grenadiers, it's only possible to get 4 Panzerschreck by means of the 2 AT-Squads. Those are still a valuable
option due to the ambush ability, so no change needed here
10.”For the Fatherland” (1 CP) Enables the use of the “For the Fatherland” global ability
8. “Field Fortifications” (2 CP) Pioneers can build Bunkers at reduced cost; Unlocks the Pak 40
Emplacement
12.”Heavy Fortifications” (2CP) unlocks the PAK43 emplacement, Tank traps cost reduced from 25MP
to 15MP
11.”Improved emplacements” (2CP) All emplacement (not the crew!) get +50% HP and take reduced
damage from all sources except demo-charges and satchels
Explanation: With the new smoke options and some other changes to the disadvantage ob emplacements lately, I feel
that emplacements without improvements in later stages might not be worth building
13. “lFh 18 105mm Howitzer” (2CP) Unlocks both emplaced and non-emplaced lFh 18
14. “Rapid Response Artillery” (2CP) Unlocks the “Registered Artillery” ability
15. “Flak 36 88mm Artillery” (2CP) Unlocks both emplaced and non-emplaced 88mm Flak 36
16. “sFH 18 150mm Artillery Salvo” (2CP) Unlocks the 150mm off-map artillery
Changes to unit selection:
- has only Volksgrenadiers as fighting infantry, Grenadiers are removed
Explanation:
I want this doctrine to fulfill a more support-oriented role. Grenadiers with their high base stats, matching other factions
elite units in some cases, would profit so much from all the buffs that they become an assault force by themselves. This has
in fact been proven by several players and is not my intention for a support doctrine focusing on holding territory and using
arty, emplacements and tank hunters. You will still be able to move in behind a sector has been cleared by your team and
them make sure the enemy will have a hard time taking it back by building defenses, digging in and laying mines as well as
create forward healing stations for your mates to fall back to.
- Officer gets a guard squad of 3 Volksgrenadier-soldiers, armed with G43 to enable the use of the
officer on the frontlines as support for the combat units
- vehicle choice restricted to SdKfz. 251-based units, removal of all Puma-variations
- can build both the cm Pak38 AND the le.IG18 from the T2-building
- movable Pak43 removed, instead becomes available as emplacement
Explanation:
At over 3,5 of weight (the Pak 40 weighs 1,5t)this just doesn’t make sense as a mobile unit, this thing had to
be moved by truck. Therefore, the only reasonable use is in the form of an emplacement.
- Unit cap on Möbelwagen removed
Explanation:
I don’t get that limit at all – Flakpanzer 38(t) has no limit, neither has the Halftrack with 2cm AA, both are
more flexible because you don’t have to switch modes and are cheaper
- shared unit cap on 105mm and 88mm guns (4 each)
Changes to structures:
- Get’s the T4 building back, now contains the following units: Jagdpanzer IV/70, Tankhunter Elefant (after it’s unlocked in the doctrine)
Explanation:
Why a buildable Elefant? In my opinion, after most German doctrines get their heavy and super heavy Tanks (a category in
which in this case the Elefant would fit in between) buildable in their respective T4, I feel the Tank Hunter Tiger a.k.a.
Elefant shouldn’t get the special treatment as a call-in. Also, a cheaper Call-in that is useable earlier might benefit game
play more than having a very expensive late game unit which is very slow and highly specialized. If the game drags on to
the point where you can make good use of the Elefant you can just as well build it, but if things go bad saving up the
1500MP to get it will only make you lose faster because you lose presence on the field and even when you get it you
probably won’t turn the game around with it because it’s slow, much less durable than a JT and can’t do anything vs.
infantry.
- changes to the bunkers: cost dropped to 300MP, after the unlock down to 250MP; Dropped: Upgrades get mostly removed (only repair bunker and observation bunker stay; observation bunker increases the vision range of units inside instead of having huge vision itself; no vision range when not garrisoned), bunkers (so if Allies clear a bunker it can now be ignored – the high resistance to damage therefore isn’t an issue anymore and can be left alone, also you can now demo it without being seen all the time). Reinforcement only works while a bunker is garrisoned so you actually need units for defense now instead of just bunkers.
Replace: Bunkers become exclusive to Defensive Doctrine, Blitzkrieg and Terror Doctrines get a Repair Station instead (same model as before) at much lower cost and lower durability. MG upgrade stays, Feuerleitbunker is removed. However, sight range of bunker is reduced to 10 so once all garrisoned infantry and units in the area are taken out it becomes a lot easier to sneak up and demolish it, even if upgraded with an MG. Observation Bunker upgrade increases the vision range of units inside instead of having huge vision itself. Repair Bunker can't be garrisoned.
- Healing Station is replaced by a complete medic bunker which is also very durable, but can’t be garrisoned. The medics can be killed to slow casualty-collection, but the structure itself is very robust and can always be used to reinforce after the doctrine unlock
- Listening Post: After Doctrine unlock, it gets 50% damage reduction from small arms fire and a large increase in vision range as well as short detection range (like the Vampir, displays stealthed enemies on the minimap without actually revealing the unit so the enemy isn’t immediately aware that his cover is blown)
This creates some issues with the build menu space, which is why some changes are required to make it like this:
Changes to Tech:
-once you reach “Escalate to Assault Phase”, all Volksgrenadier-Leaders get a G43 instead of the K98k, also all Volksgrenadiers get the option to upgrade to G43 (instead of MP40) at 2x 40ammo (for 2 rifles/upgrade)
Explanation:
Why this upgrade? WTF???
Well, since there’s no heavy infantry, the basic stuff needs to somehow be able to scale up during
the game. In addition to the stats-buffs from doctrinal unlocks and the officer, a better rifle is
required; the G43 was produced almost half a million times from ’43 to ’45 (more than the Stg44),
but in the game it’s much less present than the Stg44 which is available for both axis factions over
multiple doctrines and almost always a “must-have buy”. Because of this I decided that this
doctrine would be an ideal place for this rifle to shine (as there are no Stg44-options for ANY unit
here)
- Upon reaching T4, the Officer squad gets the victor target ability without an extra unlock in the
doctrine tree
Changes to Global abilities:
- Adds a new Call-In: Reserve Reinforcements (Delivers 2 Volksgrenadiers w/ Panzerfaust-Upgrades and a StuG IV) for 800 MP, 300 seconds cooldown
- Change Rocket Barrage into a “sFH18-Barrage” at identical cost; drops 3 series of 6 150mm shells; 1st shells hit after 3 sec, 6 shells fall quickly (5secs), the after 4 secs delay another 6 in 5 secs, then again after 4 secs another 6 shells in 5 secs. This should kill anything in its target radius just like the current rockets but also fits better with the theme of Gun-Artillery in this doctrine (the rocket salvo should be used in Terror, as they have all the fancy rocket arty)
Explanation:
Originally calulated to 18 shells because the sFh18 was used in 6-gun batteries and I was thinking of 3 shots per gun. However, Long Tom uses 9
shells of comparable power - therefore going down to 3 salvos of 3 shells each might be better (so 9 total as well)
- Registered Artillery: Currently unlock together with the 280mm Rocket Salve; Change it to unlock with “Rapid Response Artillery”, drop cost from 125
ammo to 80 ammo (very good value due to relative power of the strike within its not so small area of effect).
Balance changes:
- fix damage values of Tiger and Flak 36 to match at 135-165 (same as Pak 43 etc. – same caliber!)
This seems to cause some disagreements. At least the damagedealt by Flak 36 and Tiger should be the same, as the gun is identical
and the ammo is identical as well - a difference here make no sense at all. Having the 88mm/L71 guns have higher damage AND better penetration
isn't exactly reasonable but if most people feel that it has to have more power then I can live with that - tuning can be done later once playtesting
reveals if there are any issues
- make sure that the 88mm/L71 has higher penetration than the 88mm/L56 in all cases
- Change G43 damage to match K98k, as both rifles used the same ammunition; since the version used here has no scope it's accuracy
should be less good on long range, but rate of fire is higher (basically works like the M1 Garand)
EDIT: 1st round of editing is done, changes in light blue. Please consider and give new feedback. btw, the vote allows you to change your choice, so is can be updated to reflect current opinions.