Blitzkrieg Mod Forum

Tiger1996 wrote:I admit that the statement is not untrue. Blitz doc indeed has other ways... Never claimed otherwise.

https://youtu.be/45mOKbV3q54?t=30m10s

I'd suggest to watch it till 31:15

Tiger1996 wrote:PE has demo squad in SE doctrine, US has AB squads; and CW have SAS and RE Sappers. But which WH unit has it?? None.

And we are not talking about Luft or RAF here, not my subject.

At min 16. In this case the emplacment would have been destroyed easily by that mortar. Just the teammate helped out with Mortar HT.

Besides that you controled map so far and a stuh was possible to build already.



I think one thing why emplacments looking so strong is that BK is an ammo intensive doctrine (Maultier, nade bundle, schrecks etc) but this map doesnt contain so much of it.

shortly after that Toni passed 1 pdr with simple smoke use. At this time you had to support him with volks taking out the pit with nades and stuh.

You dont even bother to see the huge chance toni created. Where is the sdkfz 234? stuh? Ostwind? Simple tank IV D spam? Stug III?

at min 21.... Why not getting a sdkfz 234 with 20 mm or 75 to get rid of M16´s? And why not just getting stuh paired with mortar.

I mean what lierally killed you was the "Mortar HT spam".... not the emplacments.

Min 23. Emplacment decrwed. 1200 MP left....Where are schreck squads? Storms not even unlocked.

I dont think it's ok for 17 punder ANTI TANK emplacement to reliably one hit kill elite squads. But hey they are nerfing the accuaracy next patch. I would like them to tone down the explosion a bit too though.

sgtToni95 wrote:

Tiger1996 wrote:I admit that the statement is not untrue. Blitz doc indeed has other ways... Never claimed otherwise.

https://youtu.be/45mOKbV3q54?t=30m10s

I'd suggest to watch it till 31:15

Mate, are you trying to be smart with me?
When you quote something, plz quote it right:

Tiger1996 wrote:I admit that the statement is not untrue. Blitz doc indeed has other ways... Never claimed otherwise. Even though that these other ways are not really effective enough in my humble opinion, but let's move on. As I am also not here to compare units\factions or whatever, and probably that's why I don't like to continue the discussions with Hawks about other factions for now.

Also, I would like to suggest you to remember that we actually lost this game... So I can't see why you are so happy how you were able to kill 1 emplacement or whatever.. and I am not judging based on a particular game, but that's pretty much my overall experience with Blitz doc against RE doc. And I once mentioned this before somewhere else btw; as I stated that the reason why I think Blitz doc can't do shit against RE emplacements spam, is not really because Blitz doc lacks the necessary tools.. as it's more because the RE doc emplacements themselves are actually overdoing it. Being too cheap, too tough.. and fast to construct as well as quickly repaired all at the same time! Yet, also able to kill inf with HE rounds so effectively.

sgtToni95 wrote:

Tiger1996 wrote:PE has demo squad in SE doctrine, US has AB squads; and CW have SAS and RE Sappers. But which WH unit has it?? None.

And we are not talking about Luft or RAF here, not my subject.

And what's the problem here?? I was only speaking how satchels were available for all factions, except for the WH faction. Therefore I suggested to add it for only 1 unit, the demo Storm squad.. which is also limited to only 1 squad at a time! As I am not speaking about any particular doctrine here... So don't talk to me about RAF airstrikes against Luft inf or whatnot.

Quoting from video:

"Bullshit RE, Blitz can't do shit, 1 emp it's gg vs blitz doc"
"I need to kill the emp, not to avoid, there is noway to kill it as blitz doc, Noway"

That seemed to me a little contradictory with what you said in the video honestly, and I was not trying to be smart, since the full sentence does not change anything in this contradiction i wanted to show you.

Tiger1996 wrote:I admit that the statement is not untrue. Blitz doc indeed has other ways... Never claimed otherwise. Even though that these other ways are not really effective enough in my humble opinion, but let's move on. As I am also not here to compare units\factions or whatever, and probably that's why I don't like to continue the discussions with Hawks about other factions for now.

You keep saying that we lost that video, but my objective was to show you you can destroy emplacements with easy tools, that you can get a mortar before CW player can unlock the 17 pdr emplacement.

I even say that I played bad in that game, YOU keep saying that i have so few games as WH, while Lehr and Wurf are pretty decent Allies players and they have many games with them (when you need to tell they're not Biased towards axis), and still you're surprised to lose a game that was unbalanced since the beginning.

We did not lose that game because of emplacements, at least not on my side, and you know why? Because I tried to destroy the emplacement that was blocking me and i actually managed to do it. Churchills are what pushed me back because, at that time, i did not prepare a counter (my bad). You instead started crying that you could do nothing without even trying. Any of the tools you NOW admit are available in BK doc.

You keep saying we lost because of emplacements (i don't think it was only those, but those combined to unbalanced teams, my inexperience, your laziness and some abuses), but you really can't see that replay as "even someone relatively new to the doc can take down the emplacement", and i bet 2 mortars are enough even to "keep up with destroying emplacements". Do you really think this is so untrue?

You keep saying that you can't use morars since 95mm churchills oneshot them all the time: In this game your first mortar appears at min 5.08.
First emplacement you have to face (which is outside enemy base) is at min 15.30, while you don't even have tanks it could harm anyhow. It was protected by a mortar halftrack that you later managed to take down with your tank.

17pdr emplacement almost kille 2 volks squads trying to rush it under bofors fire, while they were grouped up in the same exact place trying to do i don't know what.
Min 23, you tried for the first time to take down an emplacement with a mortar (which is the earliest, cheapest and easiest solution that has been presented you, and what?!?!? you decrew and almost destroy it??!?!
Maybe if you didn't lose your volks squads to rush an emplacement defended by a bofors and, instead, you kept them for capturing the emplacement you just decrewed, it would have been better. Maybe this emplacement could have killed the nearby churchill. Wasn't this a mistake that could have turned the game?

You later park a stug in front of 2 ab squads equipped with AT and you lose it: isn't this another mistake that could have changed the game maybe?
You know... in this game i see a lot of mistakes, from me, as i say even at the end of the game, but even for you. The difference is I admit them, while you come to forum saying how "in your humble opinion" bk doc should be changed since it can't deal with emplacements. The same emplacements that killed probably 8 volks in the whole game, but were, in your opinion, the cause of our loss and of RE being so OP against Blitz.

Back to our topic, you didn't even try to use a nade bundle against emplacements actually. But you used mortar in a very effective way, while "in your humble opinion is not really effective enough", and the effect it had is clearly shown in the video.

Again you keep saying that we actually lost this game because of emplacement spam, while i think 8 VOLKS lost to 1 emplacement is not really enough to say that emplacement spam caused our loss. You didn't even lose a single tank to 17 pdr emplacements but those were for you the cause of that loss. Can't you see how illogical it is??? At least try, i beg you, TRY to move a little from your "humbleness pedistal" and try to see things a little more objectively and admit your mistakes when you do them.

Ok, and what does all this have to do with my suggestion here? I don't really think that we have to discuss the whole thing about RE doc emplacements AGAIN just because of a simple suggestion like that... We discussed about RE emplacements before already, but here I suggest a very particulate thing.. which you haven't actually addressed at all until now. As you actually never mentioned anything whether you really think replacing the bundle grenade with satchel charge for the demo Storm squad is a good thing or not. But instead; you keep discussing about RE emplacements. Even though I already told you that I am not judging based on a particular game. As I am telling my opinion regarding this matter accordingly to several games based on my overall experience. Given the fact that these RE doc emplacements are over-performing. Regardless if I were sometimes able to destroy them effectively or not...

The 2 sentences you picked from the video are rather an exaggeration, and not objective. I admit it! Clearly, I was pissed how we win the early game but then get stuck late game... Not that I was surprised how we lost but actually rather pissed. As I almost stopped playing near the end of the game, not exactly because I went lazy but again rather because I was pissed. But this changes absolutely nothing on the overall picture, the RE doc emplacements are a little bit over the top. Specifically how they are able to kill inf. They shouldn't be a threat to inf at all... Keeping in mind their advantages which I have already mentioned above.

I agree that we didn't lose that game particularly because of emplacements. Nonetheless, again.. this doesn't change the fact about RE doc emplacements being very cheap and too solid, easily constructed and quickly repaired with also the capability of killing inf units in 1 hit. Even if I manage to take down those emplacements once or twice, the fact remains unchanged.

And I also believe that you had no reliable counter to Churchills because it's usually too difficult when you focus everything you have got just to get rid of emplacements while at the same time trying to get reliable AT against Churchills, in fact.. it's nearly impossible specifically as Terror doc throughout this stage of the game. Because killing emplacements would require you a lot of ammo and manpower... What proves what I am saying is that you were forced to go for Walking Stukas just to kill emplacements at the end. Which are still not even effective enough. As a result however, you were unable to get anything reliable in order to counter Churchills, and basically.. in most cases, you really can't. You will only be able to either focus on countering Churchills or at countering emplacements. Doing both tasks at the same time is extremely difficult at such a stage of the game... But the RE doc player can do both tasks at the same time, he can defend very well, forcing you to bring more arty.. but at the same time he can attack you aggressively too! If 2 mortars were really enough, you wouldn't have ever went for the Stuka. Would you?

But oh well, once again I admit that we did mistakes.. that's for sure. As I never said that this particular game was a perfect example for RE doc emplacements spam. So don't be so picky on this particular game and try to have a better overview on the actual suggestion down here. And of course I didn't try to use bundle grenade against emplacements, unless I wanted to waste my ammo.

The suggestion to replace bundle grenade for the Demo Storm squad with satchel charge is only aimed to improve this unit in order to fulfill its primary role of blowing up stuff. Let's not forget that it's a demolition squad at the end of the day!

Focusing all i had to kill 1 emplacement? I only tried with mortar, nothing else, i didn't have counter to churchill cause i miscalculated the time it was going to appear.. and i got stuka cause i didn't really know what to get since i had plenty of res but, due to my inexperience, i didn't know which unit was better, and i actually aimed that at churchill, not at the emplacement.

And i think this game matters since i guess you're suggesting to give satchels cause the tools bk has are for you not enough to take down emplacements.

You started this topic after it has been said in the changelog that they're made more effective and that emplacements are being nerfed, but this is still not enough for you even if you didn't even try it..

And in the suggestion you said that it would be such a small change, and that it would not make such a difference that it would break balance, then if it's so tiny, bundle nades and nades in general are being buffed against emplacements, and your so hated 17 pdr emplacements are being nerfed against infantry, why do you really need to make such a suggestion? At least wait untill you tried it in game after the changes..

At least wait untill you tried it in game after the changes..

Oh well, let's see.. usually I am optimistic when the change-logs are out...
Even though this time I am honestly not very optimistic with the current change-log.