CW - HQ commando gliders : Sten or Lee-Enfield ?

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Lionelus
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CW - HQ commando gliders : Sten or Lee-Enfield ?

Postby Lionelus » 10 May 2017, 16:14

Hello BK community

I'm writing to talk about the HQ commando gliders
At the moment, it comes with a Sten commando squad inside.

Is there a possibility to give the choice between two gliders : one with a Sten commando squad and one with a Lee-Enflied commando squad ?
There would be still only one HQ commando glider available at a time.

It should'nt break any balance, as the two units are part of the same CW tier tech.
It should give a bit more versatility. Depending on the situation, you could need the Sten or the Lee-Enfield squad

JimQwilleran
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Re: CW - HQ commando gliders : Sten or Lee-Enfield ?

Postby JimQwilleran » 10 May 2017, 16:16

I like this idea very very much. I often wanted to call in the glider just to have access to enfield commandos.

speeddemon02
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Re: CW - HQ commando gliders : Sten or Lee-Enfield ?

Postby speeddemon02 » 10 May 2017, 17:03

Same here, be a great reward unit switch

kwok
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Re: CW - HQ commando gliders : Sten or Lee-Enfield ?

Postby kwok » 10 May 2017, 17:49

How would you guys do it UI wise?

JimQwilleran
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Re: CW - HQ commando gliders : Sten or Lee-Enfield ?

Postby JimQwilleran » 10 May 2017, 18:43

Two icons of commando glider. One with sten, one with enfield. Also I don't think it should be a reward choice.

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sgtToni95
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Re: CW - HQ commando gliders : Sten or Lee-Enfield ?

Postby sgtToni95 » 11 May 2017, 14:13

I don't dislike the idea.
If it was a reward unit i would probably keep the sten ones, they can still be useful when you're about to push to clean the area or to just make your opponent retreat, but if you could choose during the game which one to pick that would be nice. If i dropped one in my territory just for building purposes i'd really prefer to get lee enfield commandos with it, they are much more versatile than the sten ones expecially with the double bren upgrade.
For the implementation i agree with nami, showing two gliders with two different squads, not allowing them to be called together obviously and making them share the cooldown between call-in.

P.S.: short question, why do sten commandos get only vet 1 after tech tree upgrades, while lee enfield and other commandos get vet 2?

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Redgaarden
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Re: CW - HQ commando gliders : Sten or Lee-Enfield ?

Postby Redgaarden » 11 May 2017, 20:52

P.S.: short question, why do sten commandos get only vet 1 after tech tree upgrades, while lee enfield and other commandos get vet 2?


My guess is it got removed as so they dont get double brens like before.
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Re: CW - HQ commando gliders : Sten or Lee-Enfield ?

Postby JimQwilleran » 14 May 2017, 15:20

What devs think about this idea?

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MarKr
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Re: CW - HQ commando gliders : Sten or Lee-Enfield ?

Postby MarKr » 15 May 2017, 19:18

We are currently discussing the whole Commandos situation internally. One of the options on the table is what was mentioned here (option to call in HQ glider either with Sten or Enfield commandos) but we also have some other options in mind - the problem with Sten Commandos is that they are only effective at close range and getting them to this range is problematic so we're thinking even in this direction. We'll let you know when we reach some decision :)
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JimQwilleran
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Re: CW - HQ commando gliders : Sten or Lee-Enfield ?

Postby JimQwilleran » 15 May 2017, 19:29

MarKr wrote:We are currently discussing the whole Commandos situation internally. One of the options on the table is what was mentioned here (option to call in HQ glider either with Sten or Enfield commandos) but we also have some other options in mind - the problem with Sten Commandos is that they are only effective at close range and getting them to this range is problematic so we're thinking even in this direction. We'll let you know when we reach some decision :)


Could you maybe tell us some more about other options :D?

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MarKr
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Re: CW - HQ commando gliders : Sten or Lee-Enfield ?

Postby MarKr » 15 May 2017, 19:44

I am a bit reluctant because I am affraid that a certain forum member, whom I am not going to name (but can hint that his nick has something to do with the largest cat spiecies on Earth, most recognisable for their pattern of dark vertical stripes on reddish-orange fur with a lighter underside), could freak out :D
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Re: CW - HQ commando gliders : Sten or Lee-Enfield ?

Postby JimQwilleran » 15 May 2017, 20:00

Oh, okey. Let it be a surprise then 8-)

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Tiger1996
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Re: CW - HQ commando gliders : Sten or Lee-Enfield ?

Postby Tiger1996 » 15 May 2017, 20:25

MarKr wrote:I am a bit reluctant because I am affraid that a certain forum member, whom I am not going to name (but can hint that his nick has something to do with the largest cat spiecies on Earth, most recognisable for their pattern of dark vertical stripes on reddish-orange fur with a lighter underside), could freak out :D

You know, I would never freak out on something unless it's totally screwed up! :D

But it's probably worth mentioning that I am actually fine with all the suggestions proposed by Lion here.
However, to say the least... I believe in whatever you are ought to do ;) in other words.. I kind of have faith in what you do :)

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MarKr
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Re: CW - HQ commando gliders : Sten or Lee-Enfield ?

Postby MarKr » 15 May 2017, 20:56

I still sort of think that if I said here what we are discussing your first post after it would be something like "Interesting idea...but I must say...I have my doubts on the other hand anyway!!!" :D :D :D
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Panzerblitz1
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Re: CW - HQ commando gliders : Sten or Lee-Enfield ?

Postby Panzerblitz1 » 15 May 2017, 20:59

MarKr wrote:I still sort of think that if I said here what we are discussing your first post after it would be something like "Interesting idea...but I must say...I have my doubts on the other hand anyway!!!" :D :D :D


Will see with the next update ;)
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Re: CW - HQ commando gliders : Sten or Lee-Enfield ?

Postby Tiger1996 » 15 May 2017, 23:22

MarKr wrote:I still sort of think that if I said here what we are discussing your first post after it would be something like "Interesting idea...but I must say...I have my doubts on the other hand anyway!!!" :D :D :D

Hmm well, it really depends ^^ But I always try to express my point of view in the most constructive way I could possibly get.
Nonetheless; by reading that post:-
MarKr wrote:We are currently discussing the whole Commandos situation internally. One of the options on the table is what was mentioned here (option to call in HQ glider either with Sten or Enfield commandos) but we also have some other options in mind - the problem with Sten Commandos is that they are only effective at close range and getting them to this range is problematic so we're thinking even in this direction. We'll let you know when we reach some decision :)

Then I think I could actually guess what you are already thinking about... Though I might be wrong with my assumptions for sure.

I suspect those other "options" u mentioned to be as follows:-

- Perhaps allowing the crawl ability to Sten Commando squads >>> Which is kinda not bad, though it might be arguable...

- Or maybe you are thinking to make the Sten Commando squads dropping with Parachute.. which doesn't really change much.

- in the worst case, you might be thinking to apply the Ninja smoke to the Sten Commandos like in vCoH??!!
If yes, then I must say that you really messed up :D And I honestly think this would be rejected not just by me...

However, beyond this... Then I can't really guess any further for now.
That's pretty much everything I can imagine at the moment!

But after all, I gotta say that I also play Brits myself.. and I find everything quite legit as it is now.
in my humble opinion, I would say that there is really no need to spend so much time thinking for a solution to such insignificant issue anyway... I mean you don't really have to bring a far away solution from outside the box that could be very controversial, better you could just stick to the suggestions that everybody seem to have accepted.

speeddemon02
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Re: CW - HQ commando gliders : Sten or Lee-Enfield ?

Postby speeddemon02 » 16 May 2017, 05:41

having an early parachute unit would be rather cool

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mofetagalactica
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Re: CW - HQ commando gliders : Sten or Lee-Enfield ?

Postby mofetagalactica » 16 May 2017, 07:38

Comandos with sten plz make that happen

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sgtToni95
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Re: CW - HQ commando gliders : Sten or Lee-Enfield ?

Postby sgtToni95 » 16 May 2017, 08:05

I think a "throwable" smoke grenade could serve the purpose of closing the distance without much effort: throwing the grenade right in the right spot could keep them safer for most of the path, and let them shoot without accuracy nerfs when they're in range. This might not be the most effective way, and requires some micro, but i think it might be the easiest to implement.

Other option i would not dislike is reworking a little bit the tech tree, allowing the "inf buff" unlocks a little earlier, so to make them more of an elite unit in an earlier phase of the game: as i already mentioned, going straight for defensive and offensive buff still requires 11-12 command points iirc, which is more than what you need to get a pershing or a panther, and, hypothetically, you'd have to ignore airstrikes.
About reworking tech tree i thought about two solutions:
1) splitting inf buffs between last two defensive and offensive unlocks, so giving half(?) defensive buffs together with ambush ability, and half(?) the offensive buff together with weapons and equipment upgrade (or maybe even switching them completely since double gammons to immobilize tanks usually are used later in the game so it's not the most useful when it comes, and free brens are a massive buff as well).
2) removing the first glider upgrade completely (and letting those units you got with first upgrade available by default, so to have sten/lee enfield/boys/PIATS commandos already unlocked without any tech tree requirement), and adding instead a stand-alone unlock for 95mm cromwell: this won't probably work as intended to let the inf upgrades come earlier, 95 mm cromwell is an amazing tool for this doctrine and has become a must-have, tho it still gives you a choice and i personally find quite strange that arty doc has to unlock it from tech tree, RE doc has to unlock 95mm churchills, but RAF get it "for free", just after command cromwell which is still necessary for achilles and fireflies.

I don't think theese two options are mutually exclusive to be honest, they might work fine together since i think early inf unlocks are quite a buff, while adding 95mm cromwell unlock is a small nerf (theese suggestions might have some issues with the tech tree "paths", i'm thinking of something to solve that to complete my suggestions).

I don't think sten commando squad really needs itself a change (maybe apart from throwable smoke nade): they still serve some purpose if you use the map wisely, and after ambush unlock they are amazing if left cloaked in some crater on the front, ready to wipe out an enemy team in close range.


I'm not sure if it's a bug, not a major one for sure, tho this is exploitable, even if just for once: if you sprint with commandos and then unlock "sprinting" commando upgrade they immediately rest and are able to take the longer sprint right after the "basic" one.

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Tiger1996
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Re: CW - HQ commando gliders : Sten or Lee-Enfield ?

Postby Tiger1996 » 27 May 2017, 08:50

Tiger1996 wrote:I suspect those other "options" u mentioned to be as follows:-

- Perhaps allowing the crawl ability to Sten Commando squads >>> Which is kinda not bad, though it might be arguable...

- Or maybe you are thinking to make the Sten Commando squads dropping with Parachute.. which doesn't really change much.

- in the worst case, you might be thinking to apply the Ninja smoke to the Sten Commandos like in vCoH??!!
If yes, then I must say that you really messed up :D And I honestly think this would be rejected not just by me...

However, beyond this... Then I can't really guess any further for now.
That's pretty much everything I can imagine at the moment!

Btw, I think I forgot to mention that if the Sten commando squad ever gained the possibility to crawl.. then this could be actually super OP specifically in late game... As I just remembered how I had a Sten Commando squad with 4 upgraded Bazookas from the dropped SAS equipment as well as 1 PanzerSchreck which I've picked up from the ground! When such a squad is ever able to crawl, then something is seriously messed up.

It's quite acceptable for the infiltration Rangers though, since they only have 1 Bazooka and their load-out is always restricted as they can't be equipped with anything else rather than their default load-out. But if Sten commandos would be ever able to crawl, then the crawl ability MUST be disabled when Bazookas, PIATs or RLs are equipped to the squad.. just like PanzerShrecks then.

But if the Sten Commandos aren't going to have evasive maneuvers ability, then just ignore what I said anyway...


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