2 seconds delay versus tanks

[kwok]

LOLOLOLOL, I have never killed a cat with just stickies. But I HAVE seen SOMEONE ELSE volks charge a Pershing and spam clicked fausts on it bringing it from 100% to 0% in less than a second. Great stuff. Praise be blitz charge ability.

Thanks for the compliment though! I'm gonna work on making "meta-breaker" my renowned name.

[Paso95]

I think this is sort of the same situation that we saw with Churchills when they got buffed armor. People were used to destroying them with pretty much anything and when anything under 75mm/l48 became weak, everyone was like "OMG WTF??? Churchills are OP!" but after a while they adjusted and found ways to take them down. People just need time to adjust to this change.

I think that the biggest problem with the 2 seconds delay could be that shrecks were actually "the way to take them down" in early stages ...so let's see how they work with churchills now.

[Krieger Blitzer]

Here's a game where Lehr shows you how to kill Pershings.

jagdtiger.rec

You can see how the OP Pershing, Hellcats and shermans with 76mm gun bounce many times with AP rounds JGTiger's back (actually they never penetrated its rear) while jgtiger, a tank destroyer, is oneshotting infantry squads with HE shots. I guess this will be acceptable for you tho
I really think that since we're always repeating you the same things, and you don't seem to understand nor read what we say (when you do and see we're right, you just find something else to talk about 2sec AT=>Pershings OP=>Comet OP), you should really consider trying to play allies, to get a more objective point of view and to see what axis players will use to counter and destroy your pershings.
I tried to ask you what tanks doc would be with pershings being just average, considering it has no elite inf as BK,Terror and luft doc have together with panthers, together with arty and airstrikes, but you just keep ignoring me.
I tried to ask you if it would be fine for you if every allied doctrine had a pershing/comet/churchill croc, as EVERY axis doc has those "weak" tanks as tigers, panthers or bigger, but you just keep ignoring me.
I'm not actually looking for an answer to theese questions, but if you just could imagine what i asked you, maybe you could understand better the whole situation.

Holy shit.. just watched this game... The JagdTiger is FINALLY useful, how incredible!!! JagdTiger is now a true beast, exactly as supposed.

[MarKr]

Yes, JT has very strong armor so 17 pounders and 90mm guns from side or ideally from rear are pretty much the only chance if you decide to attack it with vehicles. Of course it is very slow and turns slowly so TDs like Achilles or Jackson can flank it easily. Due to its speed it is an easy target for planes and arty strikes and if arty as much as detracks it, the unit is pretty much lost because it cannot face anywhere else and flanking it is then very easy. Also JT has big fuel upkeep so as long as PE player has it, his fuel income is lower. But in a replay I watched, JT went head to head with SP. It bounced off a shot from SP but SP wasn't so lucky to do the same.
Long story short - TH doctrine is direct counter to US armor...and RE doc too, becasue they can chew Churchills like nothing.

[DolphinsAreGaySharks]

RIP to AT handheld weapons especially to panzerschrecks! Everyone says that is so balanced now but play the game, see it by yourself and leave the words alone. Again some crybabies ally players whined and we came to this situation! gg..

[MarKr]

This is really getting boring...people here say that playing Axis is now hard, and that we buffed allies while nerfed axis...so once again:
What buffs allies got:
US:
90mm guns more effective against (AND ONLY AGAINST) Tigers and Panthers. They still suck against stronger things as they did before
Lower scatter on upgraded bazookas (but still 2 seconds apply, and you said that "RIP to AT handheld weapons" so from your point of view this surely was not a buff to even mention)
M20 command car different bonus at level 2 (but who uses them, right?)
Rangers now correctly receive dual sticky bombs at vet level 4 (bug fix)
CW:
Gammons effective against infantry in buildings
Can build BOYS without LT
BOYS can finish off HTs with 1HP left (bug fix)

What buffs Axis got:
WH:
PaK36 same cone of fire as US 37mm
TCs available in Tank factory for all docs
37mm and 28mm HTs have longer range
PE:
Better Straffing
Stuka raid or Single Stuka (with accurate bomb)
Better attack stats for Henschels
Henschels are cheaper
Henschels more resistant to AA fire
Veteran crews of TH applies to PIV F1 too
PIV F2 has smoke
PIV F2s for all axis are cheaper (EDIT: made correction - F2 versions)
JPIV and PIV F2 are separate unlocks where they used to be dependant
Jagdtiger is pretty much indestructible frontally by any Allied gun
37mm and 28mm HTs have longer range
Panzergrenadier cost dropped to 325MP
Sturmpioneer cost dropped to 360MP
Assaultgrenadier cost dropped to 380MP

So this patch gave more buffs to Axis, but you say that Axis are nerffed as fuck and Allies are buffed...And ofcourse we listen only to allies fan boys and that is why only Axis got 2 second delay on handheld AT...oh wait...everybody got that.
Tell me exactly what made the Axis so weak, because so far everyone says "Axis got buffs but I lose more and don't know why".

[Panzerblitz1]

Its getting hilarious at this point saying Axis got nerfed, I almost regrets the huge Axis buff we implemented in this patch, its a pure nonsense, and for what? the TH doc don't have a sniper? seriously? who gives a S@ ?! the 2 sec delay shrecks? God damnit, stop rushing your AT squads on tanks frontally, the Panther D got a slower turret turn? move the F@ tank! etc...etc... there will be always something wrong anyway, depending of how you play, zillions of scenarios will show up here regarding buffing/Nerffing units who had different settings than before, and yes, because 99,9% of complains are BS all the way its getting very boring.

[MarKr]

Several people told me that playing Axis is harder now. Given how many people say it I would be willing to accept it IF there was some logic to it or if they could point specifically at the thing that makes the Axis game-play so hard now. But people just say "2 seconds on AT makes it useless. GG. You are allies fan boys" - that makes NO sense. The delay is on allied AT too...so were Axis so much dependent on Schrecks to kill vehicles? It just doesn't seem to be true + in last two days I watched streams and replays and AT teams still kill vehicles - actually I definetly saw more Schrecks than zooks in those games. I keep asking people where the problem is according to them and always say they DON'T know. So how do you want us to solve it if you don't know where the problem is.

[SnowLeo]

Several people told me that playing Axis is harder now. Given how many people say it I would be willing to accept it IF there was some logic to it or if they could point specifically at the thing that makes the Axis game-play so hard now. But people just say "2 seconds on AT makes it useless. GG. You are allies fan boys" - that makes NO sense. The delay is on allied AT too...so were Axis so much dependent on Schrecks to kill vehicles? It just doesn't seem to be true + in last two days I watched streams and replays and AT teams still kill vehicles - actually I definetly saw more Schrecks than zooks in those games. I keep asking people where the problem is according to them and always say they DON'T know. So how do you want us to solve it if you don't know where the problem is.

You right, we not know why. Of course in current patch nerf axis, yes they got a little bit buf... but play to axis now very hard.. and nobody not know why. of course on 2 sec delay not broke balance. 2 delay the same to allies too... But can we made differen delay ? For vehecles and tanks ? 1 sec delay if shoot on jeep recce (brit), mortart halftrack, halftrack with mg42, m16, and 2 sec versus other tanks ?

[MarKr]

But you see? You again say that you don't know where the problem is. You even say that "of course on 2 sec delay not broke balance" yet you propose changes to "fix the problem". How can you fix a problem when you don't know where the problem is? Do you want just randomly buff stuff until people have a feeling that Axis are ok again? That makes no sense.

[sgtToni95]

Holy shit.. just watched this game... The JagdTiger is FINALLY useful, how incredible!!! JagdTiger is now a true beast, exactly as supposed.

Yeah! ^^ and nobody noticed those 90/76 mm bouncing jadgtiger's back with ap rounds, nor anybody complained about jacksons not having HE while jadgtiger being a Grille (just look at how entire inf squads blow up) with armor and probably the best AT capabilities in the game now.. but you know... can't tell you what it is.... it's in the air.... smells like mint and shit... axis got nerfed... allies got buffed...

Jokes apart, I think this update just brought back some more importance to doc choice, which i really like. I don't want to start a fight, but maybe MAYBE axis players got used to having everything in every doc, so if your enemy didn't have SP you could just roll out with your panthers/tigers and kill pretty much everything on your path with your good inf support (mainly WH). Now if your opponent has pershings you need something more than just a panther to take them down, and not every doctrine has what needed (not forgetting cats are still able to face them).
Some time ago, while talking about "OP AB" and BK having no arty, ideas of going back to doctrines that didn't include everything (some lacking arty, some lacking good AT, some lacking of really good inf) came out and i think that could bring the game to a more co-op playstile. When i play with my friends as axis, expecially as PE, i don't even build tank/th-fabrik(dunno the exact names) cause they know i'm making inf, with an inf-based doc, for them as well, while they can save for tanks making less inf, same with arty AT and other battle necessities.
I see many people insulting each other after a loss or leaving a lobby as soon as a hated player joins, so, if it ever happens you are on the same side it becomes hard to communicate and cooperate, and the game itself becomes harder.
On the other hand i see people who try to play fair and be nice to each other, they can communicate and cooperate quite nicely and they enjoy games much more.
The other night i was playing while being on ts with Shadow, Kwok and Boba, i was fucking drunk and i spent an entire game playing the guitar and singing songs to theese little bitches, making some moves from time to time. I was even telling Shadow where my bootytraps were, knowing he was sssssscareeed of me, but somehow we managed to win and you can see the result here.
viewtopic.php?f=16&t=1659
The point is you can have more fun if you don't give a fuck about losing sometimes and about balance, and don't dislike cooperation or alternative formulas.

[Leonida [525]]

Its strange to me reading all these statements about axis worse now ..i'm mainly an axis player and I'm only happy with these changes , I think they provide and fix exactly what axis needed till now.
Maybe with new handheld AT mechanic, axis late game is delayed because now medium tanks and support vehicles are more needed, and so rushing for late tanks is more difficoult.
So it's an indirect effect of this mechanic I think. And I like it, but I cant say now if this brings balance problems.. My specific worry is early churchills, but i still havent been against them . I made matches with both Axis and Allies and wins/loses are similar as before till now

[Panzer-Lehr-Division]

Several people told me that playing Axis is harder now. Given how many people say it I would be willing to accept it IF there was some logic to it or if they could point specifically at the thing that makes the Axis game-play so hard now. But people just say "2 seconds on AT makes it useless. GG. You are allies fan boys" - that makes NO sense. The delay is on allied AT too...so were Axis so much dependent on Schrecks to kill vehicles? It just doesn't seem to be true + in last two days I watched streams and replays and AT teams still kill vehicles - actually I definetly saw more Schrecks than zooks in those games. I keep asking people where the problem is according to them and always say they DON'T know. So how do you want us to solve it if you don't know where the problem is.

I know why it is harder for pe, the mortar halftrack is gone and now allies do early spamm brits with their at boy's and us with their pak's = no scoutcar then the early camp since they got mortar pe not and mostly my mates are to lazy make mortar teams-.- = allowing early camp of allies
anyways you streamed my game's often bro. and i told you often i like this patch

Edit: Almost forgot, if pe mortar hat finally comes out it get instantly countered.. since allies got good counter's then and they most often swarm inf waves after wave in start..