Hey,
I think older versions of panzer IV (the ones with 50mm frontal armor or less) are behaving really weirdly against 6pdr cannons/at guns. I've been playing more brit games recently, even RE. I've been very surprised that 6pdr churchill was simply not able to 1v1 against PzIV F2 (75mm l/4?, from def doc). I've managed to pen one APCR (or is it APDS?), but then I hit cooldown and bounced 4 basic round round in a row at close distance, finally being one-shotted, I assume opponent activated APCR on pzIV (I know that one shot was RNG, but the pen wasn't).
In other games, I was simply continuously bouncing off other stubby pzIVs with 6pdr at guns. Those old pz4s simply reliably resist 6pdr. I know 6pdr can pen it, but apparently with (very?) low chance.
Is this simply forgotten, or intended for balance?
PanzerIV vs 6pdr
PanzerIV vs 6pdr
"Only by admitting what we are can we get what we want"
Re: PanzerIV vs 6pdr
I don't know how this gun would perform against such target in reality but 6pounders are (as far as I know) the same thing as US 57mm guns and Churchill's 6pounder has same penetration values as 57mm gun. The whole idea behind Churchills is "strong armor but crappy guns" and that is what you get in the game...the 6pounder has only 40% chance at close range to penetrate PIV F2 and with increasing range the penetration drops to 28%, the AP ability makes it 58% at close range and 40.6% at distance. The gun is pretty much only effective against HTs and tanks such as PIV E or Hotchkiss. It struggles against medium tanks.
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JimQwilleran
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Re: PanzerIV vs 6pdr
Ekhm.. up to 100 mm of penetration with basic ap... ekhm. But it would be harmful to the balance if 6p was realistic.
Re: PanzerIV vs 6pdr
Yes, 6pdr is 57mm. This isn't only about churchill, but "The whole idea behind Churchills is "strong armor but crappy guns" and that is what you get in the game...", I thought this was meant as to distinguish it from axis heavy tanks. Not that it can't kill crappy axis tanks. I mean, in the case this is intended, I fail to see the purpose of 6pdr churchill. Ok, the HE churchill is there to deal with inf, but if 6pdr one can't kill the oldest and crappiest axis tanks, then what is it for? Hardly for hunting down HTs and armored cars as it is slow as an snail.
And what about 6pdr at gun? What is it meant for when it struggles against such a weak tanks? 37mm is cheaper, quicker, faster rof and has canister shot and will deal the same with HTs and AC.
I intentionally didn't talk about realism, because 6pdr could reliably pen 80mm of pzIV H and 100mm of Tiger's armor with APDS. I know realism isn't priority, but 58% close range with APDS against 50mm of not angled armor is so off, that it hurts. And even if you purely consider balance, I don't get it, reasons explained above.
And what about 6pdr at gun? What is it meant for when it struggles against such a weak tanks? 37mm is cheaper, quicker, faster rof and has canister shot and will deal the same with HTs and AC.
I intentionally didn't talk about realism, because 6pdr could reliably pen 80mm of pzIV H and 100mm of Tiger's armor with APDS. I know realism isn't priority, but 58% close range with APDS against 50mm of not angled armor is so off, that it hurts. And even if you purely consider balance, I don't get it, reasons explained above.
"Only by admitting what we are can we get what we want"
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Krieger Blitzer
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Re: PanzerIV vs 6pdr
I wouldn't compare the 57mm AT gun with the 37mm AT gun on the other, the 57mm AT gun is obviously better against medium tanks...
However, it's probably worth mentioning that the Axis 50mm AT gun in fact isn't really better than the 57mm AT gun.. as I have seen it sometimes also bouncing off Shermans quite frequently... Even when those had no sandbags!
Though that I actually wouldn't mind improving the 6pdr against old Pz.IVs with 50mm armor, but definitely not against IV.H and J or generally the ones with 80mm of steel armor... Clearly for balance reasons. Otherwise it will have to cost more...
I guess u pretty much realize that the Churchills in reality also costed much more than this.. I think almost as much as a Tiger tank btw.
However, it's probably worth mentioning that the Axis 50mm AT gun in fact isn't really better than the 57mm AT gun.. as I have seen it sometimes also bouncing off Shermans quite frequently... Even when those had no sandbags!
Though that I actually wouldn't mind improving the 6pdr against old Pz.IVs with 50mm armor, but definitely not against IV.H and J or generally the ones with 80mm of steel armor... Clearly for balance reasons. Otherwise it will have to cost more...
I guess u pretty much realize that the Churchills in reality also costed much more than this.. I think almost as much as a Tiger tank btw.
Re: PanzerIV vs 6pdr
You can field it quite quickly if you rush directly for it and is such case Axis have nothing to reliably counter it with - 50mm have very low chance against it, 75mm L48 (which is mounted on most Axis medium vehicles) have about 15% chance at max range (more up close but still weak) so if 6pounder had enough punch to take them out easily then it could steamroll over Axis forces who would need to pray for some Schreck to penetrate it (now they have the aim time which would not help much)...or use Goliaths (which are effective but you know....why use something effective, right? 
)
)Re: PanzerIV vs 6pdr
I agree, 6dpr should struggle little bit against H/J for balance reasons, thought still with some chance bigger than 5% to pen, and solid with apds.
Don't how much MP and fuel costed in reality
. I'm not whining here to make churchill into an allied tiger, I'm just pointing out that if it can't even deal with shitty old axis tanks then I don't see its purpose.
Don't how much MP and fuel costed in reality
. I'm not whining here to make churchill into an allied tiger, I'm just pointing out that if it can't even deal with shitty old axis tanks then I don't see its purpose."Only by admitting what we are can we get what we want"
Re: PanzerIV vs 6pdr
What percentage chance at which distance would you call "struggle"?
And if you think about it what versions of PIV people really use? The stubby ones (maybe except for version E) and then H and J. Stubby versions have like 2% chance to penetrate Churchills but Churchills till has way greater chance to penetrate them and we don't think that 6pounder Churchill should be very effective against H or J versions for balance reasons. So we are left with F2 and those are not used very often because everyone goes rather for JPIV L48.
Also I mentioned it is possible to field them early and you are right that it cannot hunt HTs and armored cars but the presence of the Churchill simply makes your opponent move those vehicles away or lose them so at these situations it is simply space-denial tool.
And if you think about it what versions of PIV people really use? The stubby ones (maybe except for version E) and then H and J. Stubby versions have like 2% chance to penetrate Churchills but Churchills till has way greater chance to penetrate them and we don't think that 6pounder Churchill should be very effective against H or J versions for balance reasons. So we are left with F2 and those are not used very often because everyone goes rather for JPIV L48.
Also I mentioned it is possible to field them early and you are right that it cannot hunt HTs and armored cars but the presence of the Churchill simply makes your opponent move those vehicles away or lose them so at these situations it is simply space-denial tool.
Re: PanzerIV vs 6pdr
Well, from my experience if l/48 closes in a little bit and uses APCR pen is reliable. So that means that right now, F2 can come to church, load APCR and probably win, and that's not good. I do see your point, that early church coming slaughtering any axis tanks below tiger is scary, but how it is right now is stupid aswell imo.
If Church would be effective against H/J it kinda hurts the balance, I agree. But at the same time if you think of it, you can send H/J basically without fear against church and taking it out almost risk-free with APRC. You can even fire standard and just wait to roll high, because church is slow and can't endanger you.
Even if I agreed that it is just a space-denial tool, why shouldn't I just push little bit further and get HE church? Should take out HTs and ACs the same + deals with inf.
And what about 6pdr/57mm at gun? What are you thoughts about that? Imo they should reliably take out old pzIVs.
If Church would be effective against H/J it kinda hurts the balance, I agree. But at the same time if you think of it, you can send H/J basically without fear against church and taking it out almost risk-free with APRC. You can even fire standard and just wait to roll high, because church is slow and can't endanger you.
Even if I agreed that it is just a space-denial tool, why shouldn't I just push little bit further and get HE church? Should take out HTs and ACs the same + deals with inf.
And what about 6pdr/57mm at gun? What are you thoughts about that? Imo they should reliably take out old pzIVs.
"Only by admitting what we are can we get what we want"
Re: PanzerIV vs 6pdr
Hey slightly irrelevant just cuz you mentioned it. Goliaths are effective given they can survive. Can we talk about goliaths and how effective they are here? I would love for them to be a solution but most of the time I think they are not. Too much trickery needed and tactic to handle them.
As for the 6 pdr Churchill I prob disagree about their uselessness. They have a nice mid game place. They are definitely not an end game solution though. I think the problem is they don't shine because axis normally do not use medium tanks (which 6pdrs are definitely built to go against) except the fancy panzer 4s (which are justifiably but honestly unrealistically effective). The meta makes them obsolete. To be honest, I think the solution to make them shine isn't to change the Churchill but change axis.
As for the 6 pdr Churchill I prob disagree about their uselessness. They have a nice mid game place. They are definitely not an end game solution though. I think the problem is they don't shine because axis normally do not use medium tanks (which 6pdrs are definitely built to go against) except the fancy panzer 4s (which are justifiably but honestly unrealistically effective). The meta makes them obsolete. To be honest, I think the solution to make them shine isn't to change the Churchill but change axis.
Tarakancheg: I want volkssturmm to upgrade to knights cross holders at vet 5 so that I can just show players how bad they are.
Re: PanzerIV vs 6pdr
Well, that's the thing, Kwok. I found church not effective against axis "weaker" medium tanks. And it can't be, considering numbers Makr has provided. You say, 6pdrs are definitely built to go against axis medium tanks. But they don't work, that's what I'm trying to say in this thread.
Yes, I never see people using Goliaths, except Nami, when he is pretending giving defeated opponent a chance, sitting on 3600 MP. But it'd be better to start a separate topic for that.
Yes, I never see people using Goliaths, except Nami, when he is pretending giving defeated opponent a chance, sitting on 3600 MP
. But it'd be better to start a separate topic for that."Only by admitting what we are can we get what we want"
Re: PanzerIV vs 6pdr
The question still stands - what penetration chance at close and at distance would you say is "struggle against PIV H/J"?
But just consider the big picture - 6pounder Churchill doesn't perform realistically against weak PIVs (those that almost noone uses). So we buff it to be more realistic along with it 57mm ATs in general which means that even T48 HT will become deadly against medium tanks btw. (so more rant for removing the range bonus) and this will make one more reason NOT to build these PIVs at all. Then, because Allied medium AT gun got buff and becomes somewhat reliable against Axis medium tanks, Axis will call for buff for their 50mm AT guns (that means Puma too). So we would change the effectiveness of first Churchill, 57mm AT gun, T48, 6pounder AT, 50mm AT and Puma just to make certain gun more effective against a unit that pretty much nobody uses (F2)? Not mentioning kwok's suggestion to change the WHOLE Axis just to make first Churchill shine a bit more.
I mean it would be possible to do but such changes always bring balance problems that were not anticipated when you make the change and in the end you spent next 3 patches (only 3 if you're lucky ) to get stuff balanced again.
EDIT:
Though you peaked my interest so I will ask how you imagine these changes would look like
But just consider the big picture - 6pounder Churchill doesn't perform realistically against weak PIVs (those that almost noone uses). So we buff it to be more realistic along with it 57mm ATs in general which means that even T48 HT will become deadly against medium tanks btw. (so more rant for removing the range bonus) and this will make one more reason NOT to build these PIVs at all. Then, because Allied medium AT gun got buff and becomes somewhat reliable against Axis medium tanks, Axis will call for buff for their 50mm AT guns (that means Puma too). So we would change the effectiveness of first Churchill, 57mm AT gun, T48, 6pounder AT, 50mm AT and Puma just to make certain gun more effective against a unit that pretty much nobody uses (F2)? Not mentioning kwok's suggestion to change the WHOLE Axis just to make first Churchill shine a bit more.
I mean it would be possible to do but such changes always bring balance problems that were not anticipated when you make the change and in the end you spent next 3 patches (only 3 if you're lucky
) to get stuff balanced again.EDIT:
Though you peaked my interest so I will ask how you imagine these changes would look like
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Panzerblitz1
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Re: PanzerIV vs 6pdr
Most Panzer IVs had around 5 to 8cm front armour, so it may take a few normal 6pdr AP rounds to KO a Pz IV, assuming the Brit tank survived long enough, If the range was over 1000yds, or it was a heavier German tank, the normal OQF 6pdr shells would not be adequate, using (in game) APCR against medium tanks is vital for the 6pdr.
In conclusion the QF 6pdr is going to have many problems to defeat the frontal armor of the great majority of German tanks/assault guns without using his special shells.
More infos here http://www.wwiiequipment.com/index.php? ... &Itemid=58
In conclusion the QF 6pdr is going to have many problems to defeat the frontal armor of the great majority of German tanks/assault guns without using his special shells.
More infos here http://www.wwiiequipment.com/index.php? ... &Itemid=58
Re: PanzerIV vs 6pdr
My churchills have no problem penetrating stugs and early p4's. It's those damn schrecks that run around that do it for me.
Unless you mean the uber P4's from blitz doc. Then yeah, those 80fu fuckers can be a bitch. The BK doc just lowers the price more and spams the hell out of them. THankfully, blitz doc has no arty so you emplacement spam blitz doc to win.
Unless you mean the uber P4's from blitz doc. Then yeah, those 80fu fuckers can be a bitch. The BK doc just lowers the price more and spams the hell out of them. THankfully, blitz doc has no arty so you emplacement spam blitz doc to win.
Tarakancheg: I want volkssturmm to upgrade to knights cross holders at vet 5 so that I can just show players how bad they are.
Re: PanzerIV vs 6pdr
@blitz
As I said, realism isn't a priority in BK mod, obviously. So I'm not sure why you entered the discussion with just this one reasoning concerning realism, but ok. Correct me if I'm wrong, 5 to 8cm for most pz4 means that H/J had 8cm frontal hull and 5cm turret and all the rest versions 5cm hull and 5 or 3cm turret (if not lower), right? After 3 mins of googling, I found that l/50 version that was introduced in August 1942 (coh is set in 44-45 if I'm not mistaken) has penetration of 97/82/64 mm for FH armor and 86/80/68mm for MQ armor at 500/1000/2000 yards. That's seem enough to me to pen H/J up to 1000 yards and all the rest 2000+. I don't see how in real life using APDS was vital, when it was produced only in minority.
In conclusion, 6pdr is going to have a no problem at all defeating any axis tank up to tiger.
@Mark
T48 HT could stay how it is, unrealistic, but can be handled. Pz4 H/J would still have a good chance bouncing, won't tell you exact % right now, don't even know the current one. I don't really see why 50mm should be buffed in the case 6pdr can pen axis shit tanks. 50mm can reliably pen any allied tank except jumbo,churchs,pershing. Yes, sherman can bounce 50mm, but it's more or less considered lucky, still enough to say that it reliably pens it.
Edit @Kwok
Well my churchs had problems with shitty pz4 (not blitz H/J, those were always supernatural, wouldn't surprise me not penning), same as 6pdrs with stubby crap pz4s. That's why I started this topic in the first place. And penetration chances Mark has provided kinda explain why.
As I said, realism isn't a priority in BK mod, obviously. So I'm not sure why you entered the discussion with just this one reasoning concerning realism, but ok. Correct me if I'm wrong, 5 to 8cm for most pz4 means that H/J had 8cm frontal hull and 5cm turret and all the rest versions 5cm hull and 5 or 3cm turret (if not lower), right? After 3 mins of googling, I found that l/50 version that was introduced in August 1942 (coh is set in 44-45 if I'm not mistaken) has penetration of 97/82/64 mm for FH armor and 86/80/68mm for MQ armor at 500/1000/2000 yards. That's seem enough to me to pen H/J up to 1000 yards and all the rest 2000+. I don't see how in real life using APDS was vital, when it was produced only in minority.
In conclusion, 6pdr is going to have a no problem at all defeating any axis tank up to tiger.
@Mark
T48 HT could stay how it is, unrealistic, but can be handled. Pz4 H/J would still have a good chance bouncing, won't tell you exact % right now, don't even know the current one. I don't really see why 50mm should be buffed in the case 6pdr can pen axis shit tanks. 50mm can reliably pen any allied tank except jumbo,churchs,pershing. Yes, sherman can bounce 50mm, but it's more or less considered lucky, still enough to say that it reliably pens it.
Edit @Kwok
Well my churchs had problems with shitty pz4 (not blitz H/J, those were always supernatural, wouldn't surprise me not penning), same as 6pdrs with stubby crap pz4s. That's why I started this topic in the first place. And penetration chances Mark has provided kinda explain why.
"Only by admitting what we are can we get what we want"
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Panzerblitz1
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Re: PanzerIV vs 6pdr
Yes on the paper the 6pdr is amazing, it was a great gun end 42, in 44 it started to struggle with better armored medium tanks like the panzer IV H, Panthers and of course Tigers In game i have no problem to pen. Panzers 4's, with the 6 pdr ,and think its fine, if we touch something who's working already very well, the whole balance will crumble.
Regarding apds i was talking in game, not in real life.
How its possible to struggle in front of shitty panzer 4's, they get one shot by 6pdr? Don't understand here.
Did you guys have troubles to take out panzer 4's with the 6pdr guns in game?
Regarding apds i was talking in game, not in real life.
How its possible to struggle in front of shitty panzer 4's, they get one shot by 6pdr? Don't understand here.
Did you guys have troubles to take out panzer 4's with the 6pdr guns in game?
Re: PanzerIV vs 6pdr
I can use only paper, I haven't fought in ww2.
You said "like it was in real life", so I thought.
If several people will say they have no problem wrecking p4s with 6pdr, then I'll consider it a very bad luck for extended number of games for me, though pen chances Mark posted seems really low to me. I don't see that many 6pdr being used in games nor RE either.
I don't know how man. Simply Stubby pz4 drives in front of 6pdr and it bounce again and again.
You said "like it was in real life", so I thought.
If several people will say they have no problem wrecking p4s with 6pdr, then I'll consider it a very bad luck for extended number of games for me, though pen chances Mark posted seems really low to me. I don't see that many 6pdr being used in games nor RE either.
I don't know how man. Simply Stubby pz4 drives in front of 6pdr and it bounce again and again.
"Only by admitting what we are can we get what we want"
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Panzerblitz1
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Re: PanzerIV vs 6pdr
Panzerblitz1 wrote:Which stubby? D? E? F1?
I don't remember, sorry, but I think it was the one from Blitz doc.
Sorry, I don't want to be an ass, but I've been browsing little bit about the 6pdr and I've stumbled upon this forum.
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=163692&start=15
And I've noticed you copied your answers from there.
Post 12 of user "Saxon Cross"
Panzerblitz1 wrote:Most Panzer IVs had around 5 to 8cm front armour, so it may take a few normal 6pdr AP rounds to KO a Pz IV, assuming the Brit tank survived long enough, If the range was over 1000yds, or it was a heavier German tank, the normal OQF 6pdr shells would not be adequate
Post 1 of user "Meyer"
Panzerblitz1 wrote:In conclusion the QF 6pdr is going to have many problems to defeat the frontal armor of the great majority of German tanks/assault guns without using his special shells.
You've just added the part with special shells and SUBSTITUTE QF 75mm with QF 6prd. Why the hell would you do that?
"Only by admitting what we are can we get what we want"
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JimQwilleran
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Re: PanzerIV vs 6pdr
To be honest I feel 6p to be a strange gun. Plain at gun itself is rather unreliable (read: can't kill in 2 shots, penetration chances are quite unpredictable). But once it vets, for example while on the churchill, it becomes really nice. I have seen tigers penned with both pak and mounted 6p. I think in the churchill vs panzer IV H duel, both tanks have equal chances, especially with apcr ammo. That's what comes from my experience. Everything else lies in the hands of RNGod. There is always a 5% chance of hitting the ammo 
.
Yea, I like to feel secured for future threats xD. Also if my team is winning, I often don't want the game to end yet, so I just sit, do nothing and watch other players fighting. I don't pretend, I really give them a chance. There is no fun in an easy win! Better to lose with tones of fun, than make mates from the other team unhappy and get a boring win.
.Devilfish wrote:Yes, I never see people using Goliaths, except Nami, when he is pretending giving defeated opponent a chance, sitting on 3600 MP
Yea, I like to feel secured for future threats xD. Also if my team is winning, I often don't want the game to end yet, so I just sit, do nothing and watch other players fighting. I don't pretend, I really give them a chance
. There is no fun in an easy win! Better to lose with tones of fun, than make mates from the other team unhappy and get a boring win.
Re: PanzerIV vs 6pdr
Usually stubby is for Pz4Em and for what I know E and F1 share same armor at BK.
@devilfish
For some reasons, in early bk version, it was decided the 57 mm would be inferior to the pak 38 for penetration. It was historically inacurate of course. In exchange the 57 mm deals a bit more damage, it is symbolic imo. Czech BK rebalanced the 57 mm. However, for years, players took habits. It was probably not possible to adjust the 57 mm to historical value without a revolution.
Churchill 6 pdr have also a unique weakness/singularity. Penetration decrease value with range. This gun in the 50 / 57 mm category have an unfavorable penetration modifier in the target table. haltrack T48 and sdkfz 234 puma work with the same value than pak, Churchill not. It could explain, partly, your feeling / experience with the Churchill.
@devilfish
For some reasons, in early bk version, it was decided the 57 mm would be inferior to the pak 38 for penetration. It was historically inacurate of course. In exchange the 57 mm deals a bit more damage, it is symbolic imo. Czech BK rebalanced the 57 mm. However, for years, players took habits. It was probably not possible to adjust the 57 mm to historical value without a revolution.
Churchill 6 pdr have also a unique weakness/singularity. Penetration decrease value with range. This gun in the 50 / 57 mm category have an unfavorable penetration modifier in the target table. haltrack T48 and sdkfz 234 puma work with the same value than pak, Churchill not. It could explain, partly, your feeling / experience with the Churchill.
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Panzerblitz1
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Re: PanzerIV vs 6pdr
Devilfish wrote:Panzerblitz1 wrote:Which stubby? D? E? F1?
I don't remember, sorry, but I think it was the one from Blitz doc.
Sorry, I don't want to be an ass, but I've been browsing little bit about the 6pdr and I've stumbled upon this forum.
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=163692&start=15
And I've noticed you copied your answers from there.
Post 12 of user "Saxon Cross"Panzerblitz1 wrote:Most Panzer IVs had around 5 to 8cm front armour, so it may take a few normal 6pdr AP rounds to KO a Pz IV, assuming the Brit tank survived long enough, If the range was over 1000yds, or it was a heavier German tank, the normal OQF 6pdr shells would not be adequate
Post 1 of user "Meyer"Panzerblitz1 wrote:In conclusion the QF 6pdr is going to have many problems to defeat the frontal armor of the great majority of German tanks/assault guns without using his special shells.
You've just added the part with special shells and SUBSTITUTE QF 75mm with QF 6prd. Why the hell would you do that?
Yes indeed i have a lot of infos stored in my pc, some are partials regarding units and guns, this one was under 6pdr guns, and yes i copy paste what i had, in my files i putted 6pdr surely to not be confused with the us model, and no you're not an ass, its surely coming from this site.
Edit: what? I substitute 75mm with the 6pdr? Hmmm i just copy paste the text on the net and they are talking about the 75mm gun.. which is even worse, its maybe not the original text...don't get it, but anyway, the 6 pdr wasn't performing that well on late panzer IV's and bigger tanks, that is a sure thing.
Re: PanzerIV vs 6pdr
@blitz
Yes, in those posts on the forum, they talk about QF 75mm not about 6pdr. That's what surprised me. Nothing wrong with copying answers if they are up to a point and well explained.
It was a real coincidence I found that, I was just looking up info about 6pdr.
Yes QF 75mm had indeed worse performace than 6pdr. 6pdr surely didn't perform well against panther and tigers, against pz4 H though....., according to website you've linked it should do well. If you have some sources that says that out in action it was different, feel free to share.
@Jalis
Interesting info.
@Nami
Never seen a 6pdr killing a tiger. Might be vet bonuses are insane.
Yes, in those posts on the forum, they talk about QF 75mm not about 6pdr. That's what surprised me. Nothing wrong with copying answers if they are up to a point and well explained.
It was a real coincidence I found that, I was just looking up info about 6pdr.
Yes QF 75mm had indeed worse performace than 6pdr. 6pdr surely didn't perform well against panther and tigers, against pz4 H though....., according to website you've linked it should do well. If you have some sources that says that out in action it was different, feel free to share.
@Jalis
Interesting info.
@Nami
Never seen a 6pdr killing a tiger
. Might be vet bonuses are insane."Only by admitting what we are can we get what we want"
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Panzerblitz1
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Re: PanzerIV vs 6pdr
Well, after more research, it seems that you were right about the 6pdr, it was indeed a great gun, appologies, my archives on that was bogus.
But in game, the 6pdr "normally" perform well no?
http://tankarchives.blogspot.fr/2013/04 ... tanks.html
But in game, the 6pdr "normally" perform well no?
http://tankarchives.blogspot.fr/2013/04 ... tanks.html
Re: PanzerIV vs 6pdr
It is more or less psychological. 57 mm dont perform as it would, from historical point of view.
Add to that the 75 from Sherman / Churchill / Cromwell have equal or better penetration (ingame but not historically), and deal more damage. We can understand people think there is no viable place for the 6 pdr as tank gun.
yet, modify 6 pdr tank gun can not be done without, modifiy to AT 57 mm for logic reasons. It could hurt whole balance.
More than two years ago I made a post about 57 mm unfair treatment at BK. Evil bunny. I think slight change/balance have been made after that. Just to say the problem is not new, even it is rare players protest or ask for explanaitions.
Add to that the 75 from Sherman / Churchill / Cromwell have equal or better penetration (ingame but not historically), and deal more damage. We can understand people think there is no viable place for the 6 pdr as tank gun.
yet, modify 6 pdr tank gun can not be done without, modifiy to AT 57 mm for logic reasons. It could hurt whole balance.
More than two years ago I made a post about 57 mm unfair treatment at BK. Evil bunny. I think slight change/balance have been made after that. Just to say the problem is not new, even it is rare players protest or ask for explanaitions.