FoW: VOTE

[Panzerblitz1]

Hello guys we need to take a decision here regarding the FoW units reveal system, please choose one, the majority will decide.

[Tor]

New not bad, but playable only with new prices.

[Viper]

the idea is cool overall. but in my humble opinion the implementation is not fine currently and has many issues/bugged.
units keep "flashing" through the fog of war. and a lot of balance will need to be changed for this.
coh1 engine does not support this feature. i think the new fog system should not stay.

[Panzerblitz1]

Technical problem, plz revote! sorry about that.

[Sukin-kot (SVT)]

It may work only with full rebalancing of the paks, snipers, arty and mortars, this will take ages of testing and fixing, hence I'm against that feature.

[Leonida [525]]

Totally agree with Sukin, i think it would need a big rework

[XAHTEP39]

...and rework recon`s system and ranges of vision.

[Warhawks97]

And here a interesting feature gets killed because it doesnt fit in players typicall gameplay (forumula gameplay or how to call it).

There might be issues with paks etc but is that such a big deal? paks ranges can be adjusted if necessary (or whatever), Snipes HP/range whatever changed.... its not such a big deal i think.

You think stuhs or scotts or whatever can become problematic? Changeable...

Recon cap can be easily upped.... binoculars added elsewhere (remember discussion about binocular abilties on more units?)


But we get a real chance now that games wouldnt end up in counter counter counter barrages that get countered by counter barrages being countered just to be countered and the team with more lucky shots or so wins at the end. Howitzers would have a reason to exist.

Finally getting rid or rocket arty units that fire only pointless counter barrages on enemie arty units.


But that everybody always runs instantly against new features instead to test it over a longer time and to enlist pros and cons. But in current times i often feel that people give up on ideas too fast.

[Sukin-kot (SVT)]

But we get a real chance now that games wouldnt end up in counter counter counter barrages that get countered by counter barrages being countered just to be countered and the team with more lucky shots or so wins at the end. Howitzers would have a reason to exist.

Finally getting rid or rocket arty units that fire only pointless counter barrages on enemie arty units.

That's nonsense, probably you haven't played for too long, games are not like this at all.

[kwok]

But we get a real chance now that games wouldnt end up in counter counter counter barrages that get countered by counter barrages being countered just to be countered and the team with more lucky shots or so wins at the end. Howitzers would have a reason to exist.

Finally getting rid or rocket arty units that fire only pointless counter barrages on enemie arty units.

That's nonsense, probably you haven't played for too long, games are not like this at all.

My games were. In fact, I was on the other side of it where I was getting bombarded by howitzers and couldn't counter barrage until later scouting the battery out. Still ended up winning because stormtroopers are OP. woooo.
Replay found here:
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=1503&p=14682#p14661

EDIT:
Or did you mean that games are not about counter barrage, counter counter barrage, counter counter counter barrage?
I think they are. The field howitzers were always countered by something like SE mortars or mobile nebels. SE mortars were always countered by off map barrage or glider crushes. Defense doc arty pretty much only had a 10 minute window of glory before it was bombarded by tank howitzers. At the end, the only arty that is even around anymore are the stupid priests, wespes, walking stukas, or mother fucking never ending over used mortar halftracks that literally countered EVERYTHING to some degree. The theme of all those units people have found arty OP was that they were all mobile and could just keep dodging and dodging. GIve the field howitzers a chance to live and not be counter bombarded so easily and maybe we'll actually have a chance at balancing arty for once.

[JimQwilleran]

I also think that this change is something good that has a potential, and don't really understand why right now this has to be 1-0 choice, we can't have more time for testing? I mean, not delaying the patch.. but giving interested players some other beta version aside main BK, so they could experiment.

And this is true, static howizers are useless, the only usable arty is mobile arty. And if there are 2 arty players in opposite teams, it ALWAYS ends up as counter-arty battle. That's my experience too.

[kwok]

To play devil's advocate and give reason why it has to be a 1-0 choice, splitting versions creates two difference instances and paths for balance changes. It becomes difficult to manage balances when some people are experimenting and some people are not.
Plus, there's just the cost vs benefit case where if not enough people are even interested then why bother? Keeping the masses content and happy with minimal effort.

Not that it's not doable, but with the forum structure and general team size, it would be tough. It would be safer to keep everyone on the same instance.

[JimQwilleran]

I see, but it doesn't change the fact it would be a damn lose if we let pass this opportunity just like that :/.

[kwok]

Yep, which is why we can either try to rally more votes and talk more, or we just let it be and let the game take its stale stale course.

[MarKr]

ok...from what I can see, problems with arty are minimal but the effectiveness of AT guns and snipers is the main issue...given some new facts that kwok made me avare of...theoretically speaking, if snipers and AT guns were visible in the FoW but arty and mortars were not. Would it be acceptable for those who voted against keeping it?

[Leonida [525]]

if snipers and AT guns were visible in the FoW but arty and mortars were not.

Well, if this is possible it could be a good compromise with more testing and some changes for balancing arty docs and units that might be buffed too much

[JimQwilleran]

Anything will be good if we are not giving up without fighting .

[PiotrW]

.. if snipers and AT guns were visible in the FoW but arty and mortars were not. Would it be acceptable for those who voted against keeping it?

My vote was against the new FoW. Maybe just because i'm used to "old style" ?..
But:
1. There is definitely a problem with "counter-arty battles" with old FoV.
2. New FoV brings some new deadly "first contact" tactics. For example: it is possible to suppress advancing allied infantry with camoed MG42, and then barrage them to death with mortar team/halftruck WITHOUT revealing MG and mortar position (both MG and mortar placed in open space - MG camoed on yellow cover behind single bush).
"Old style" still seems to be more "fair".

[Jagdpanther]

The vehicles are flickering with this new system