4.9.6 First Impressions & Feedback - New Handheld AT

[kwok]

The recent beta patch had a lot of changes that really shook up more than just the meta of the game. I really found myself re-thinking how to approach different problems. There are a few topics I want to bring up that I think were changes many weren't expecting so that we can all talk about our own personal experiences and find ways of playing we didn't think about before before bringing up balancing suggestions.

The new change on handheld AT seemed like a simple exploit fix at first but I think really really changes the landscape of the game. Adding an aim time to handheld AT essentially makes the "sprint, shoot, and scurry" tactic unusable or extremely risky. One example, I found myself extremely challenged when I played as luft (I'm going to try to avoid talking about any other balances concerning luft and focus solely on the handheld AT).
Replay attached:

4p_road_to_montherme.2016-11-24.16-42-02.rec

(1.97 MiB) Downloaded 63 times

The big game changer in this particular game for me was I couldn't just stick a panzerschreck onto my reg5 and essentially take out any cars or armor that I run into. The aim time was longer than it takes for a unit like the quad halftrack to kill my squad or any other car to run away. I could only imagine what hell I'd go through if I were to face scotts and HE shermans.
My workaround was to simply make hetzers, marders, and other AT available to luft. I was being kicked around by cars at first, but once I started bringing out some longer range guns to support my luft, I really retook the initiative in the game.

What I learned from this game was that cars really have a place in the mid-game now with a lot of potential to harass and wittle down opponents now that handheld AT doesn't instant fire. I also learned that I really can't rely on handheld AT to be my primary source of AT anymore. It's even tough to use defensively in ambush because there is still an aim time where a vehicle can speed past my ambush before my AT can fire. Handheld AT are safeties if my first AT fails to keep vehicles away rather than killing them at all. In fact, in another game (I will upload the replay in a different post) I practically just threw handheld AT away as a source of AT because whenevertank destroyer like the achilles would break through my line, it would blow past so quickly that the schreck just couldn't react in time, allowing the achilles to run silly around the map and strike every vehicle my team had.

Personally, I like the game like this. It forces more variety of units and mixed compositions. It returns the roles to other units so that single units don't drive the game and then players start screaming "OP OP OP". I can see some people having a real problem with handheld AT not even being an ambush type unit. I think that can be brought back and solved by adding a modifier to the ambush ability, lowering the aim time and extending the reload time (essentially reverting to the values but only in ambush). But that'd be my only suggestion, because honestly I really like it this way.
Side effect: it actually cancels out the AT clown car "exploit" where you put bazooka teams in an m5 halftrack and run around silly firing rockets.

[Sukin-kot (SVT)]

I think Hetzer must be available after 2 cp for PE, otherwise they will be doomed by early tanks and vehicles each match, since now they don't have any reliable counter to allied vehicles besides paks ( single Schreck with aiming time? Lol. Light vehicles which get pulverized by Boys, Quad cals and Pak trucks? Lol. One shot Puma for 400 mp and 45 fuel? Lol

And devs, since you implemented this FoG feature it's ESSENTIAL to downgrade American 57mm truck, or this bitch will be driving around the battlefield and sniping all other vehicles without even getting spotted.

Both, WH and USA trucks should have standard range ( 60 ) + 5 from ambush. They are supposed to be option, not an ultimate substitute to Pak, you either choose mobility of trucks or range and sturdiness of paks.

[MarKr]

Given the fact that PE can decide if they build Tank Support building or Tank Hunter building first, what does it matter if there is first 2CP unlock PIV F2 or Hetzer? They both have 75mm L48 gun so their chance to take out targets is the same.

About the AT HT - given the reports about problems with FoW I think it will be reverted anyway. But to react to that - you keep saying how brutally OP the 57mm HT is due to its range and keep comparing it to Axis 75mm HTs. Axis HT are way stronger and more accurate and thus they can one-shot even medium tanks such as Shermans. 57mm HT cannot do it often even for other HTs so the range is its only advantage...and at that range it is particularly accurate either...

[Sukin-kot (SVT)]

Hetzer can be ambushed, have better armor and lower incoming accuracy, thats a big difference.

I dont really care about Axis halftruck, it seems to be balanced, what I cant say about american halftruck. ''Only'' advantage? Seriosuly? Advantage in range ( +15 ) allows to kill any vehicle without any troubles. Also its a way too cost effective counter for expensive Ostwinds and Wirbelwinds. With handled AT aim timer it will become even stronger.

[XAHTEP39]

Pz. IV F2 has 75-mm L/43 cannon, it is a a little bit worse, than Hetzers L/48 cannon.

[XAHTEP39]

About AT-squads. I like this feature, but in this case, it is necessary to improve "ambush-mode" of AT-squads.
For example:
- activate "ambush-mode", if not all 4 mens of squad keep in cover
and
- little bit increase range of fire in the "ambush-mode"
and/or
- little bit faster aiming/reloading in the "ambush-mode"


And a MAIN remark:
Currently, AT-squad in the "ambush-mode" didn`t have free-fire, like as all ambushed PaKs. If you don`t micro AT-squad at one moment, then enemy vehicle just moves away.
So AT-squad require direct order to open fire in "ambush-mode", although there is button "stop fire/resume fire" -> this button is useless currently.

[Warhawks97]

Nice.

Fully agree with Kwok.
Also i fully agree with sukin. having 15 more range is nothing i would call "only". Given the fact that it is a counter to every vehicle (but also medium tanks). Also such units are also supposed mainly to fire from ambush but providing more flexibility than normal paks. 60 range and +5 from ambush. Thats fine.

And same with the Hetzer issue. Just because two units have same guns it doesnt mean they are simply the same. Alone the ambush ability makes it largely different and more suited for certain roles.

Another think i am thinking about are AT guns. Especially light and mediums are fast but with decent speed. Now they can be used quite aggressively. Ambush not even required to keep unspotted.

Dont get me wrong. I love the current FoW system. Esspecially as it changes the arty gameplay from pointless counter barrages to more tactical usage.
Just few things/units need an adjustment to it accordingly.