Execute Simultaneous Ability

[kwok]

Hello, I had an idea.

I wanted to put this in my CoH2 mod, but thought maybe it's worth sharing for BK. I also can't figure out how to do it in CoH2, but I believe it might work for BK.

The idea is essentially being able to execute multiple orders simultaneously to do a multi-unit tactic. The way it works is when you activate an ability on, the units with the ability on will not move. From here you can shift-queue orders for all the units you've frozen. As soon as you hit the ability again, all the shift queue'd orders for all units execute at once. This will let you almost act as if you were AI and counterbalance micro skill versus brains.

I came up with this idea because my micro sucks relative to the better players here. I am above average from lots of practice, but I am definitely below average. I get away with a lot because I do a lot of pre-planning and execute my clicks based on predetermined movements. I really rely on my brain over micro. But, catch me off guard, I can never react properly because I fumble my micro (and I've been yelled at plenty on my broadcast about my inability to react to anything). I know a lot of new players will fumble their micro as well, but that doesn't make them bad in planning/strategy. I want to equal the playing field and reward strategy and tactics over raw micro. Let us orchestrate grand battle plans!

How it would be done technically is just a toggle ability that will applies a 0 max speed modifier when toggled on. The ability would be multi-cast among all that have the ability (which I hope would be every unit possible).

Hope you guys like the idea and I can get some help figuring it out on my CoH2 mod as well. I have it working for tanks but not infantry because they made movement for infantry in CoH2 really weird and inflexible...

[kwok]

And if this really unique idea done, can we call it "KWOK'S EXECUTION TOGGLE"?

[JimQwilleran]

This sounds very abstract to me, I don't know how to imagine that thing . Can you describe it using some kind of example situation maybe?

[Sukin-kot (SVT)]

I didn't get it either

[MarKr]

If I get it right, in praxis you would have M16, 2 Rifle squads and AT gun.
1) You would activate "KWOK'S EXECUTION TOGGLE" (sofar nothing happens)
2) you click on M16 -> hold shift -> click on position 1, 2, 3 (set way points) -> release shift (M16 does nothing but remebers the order qeue)
3) now you click on Riflemen -> hold shift -> click on position 1 -> click on fuel point (capture order) -> click on position near cover (Riflemen do nothing but remeber the order qeue)
4) click on AT gun -> click on position where you want to deploy it -> set facing (AT gun does nothing but remebers the order qeue)
5) click on 2nd Riflemen -> hold shift -> click on position 1 -> click on position two in cover (Riflemen do nothing but remeber the order qeue)
6) You click on the "KWOK'S EXECUTION TOGGLE" again and all 4 units start carrying on the orders in the qeue

If it was meant this way, I don't think it is possible to do. When you immobilize units (set their movement speed to "0" or via "hold position" action) any movement-related orders are disabled for them = they would not line into the order qeue.

[JimQwilleran]

Aaa, I remember some games with such a feature. It seems nice, but you say it's not possible ?

[MarKr]

Yeah, I think this would not work...it is similar to what you can see when you set a squad into Hold Position mode - when they are in HP mode, you select them and move your cursor over a building, you don't see the "get in" icon, your "attack move" ability dissapears too. So when you would "pause" your units, you would be unable to issue any orders appart from attack order.

[kwok]

So it depends in coh2 I found. If the modifier is enable movement -1 (which is how I think hold ground does it) it cancels moves. But if you set modifier max speed to zero it just means it moves so slow that it doesn't move, but movement is still technically able. Similarly how g43 slows work, except it would be applied to self instead of target and the slow would be -100%. I managed to do it for tanks in my mod. Though I don't know entirely for coh1

And which other mod had this? I felt special for thinking of it.

[Krieger Blitzer]

And which other mod had this? I felt special for thinking of it.

I have never seen such a feature on the CoH world... However, some legendary ww2 RTS games such as Combat Mission series.. actually had this feature represented even as a principle method of the primary game-play mechanics.

[kwok]

Hm I never heard of that game but it sounds cool! Does it work? Do you think it can be applied into Coh?

[Krieger Blitzer]

Combat Mission Beyond Overlord was probably one the very first ww2 RTS games to ever exist in the PC gaming world... Currently the latest version is called Combat Mission Battle for Normandy or Red Thunder if I am not mistaken.. but it's completely different from CoH as it's perhaps more like Men of War; but even yet I think it's still totally different from MoW as well.

But to be honest, regardless whether such a feature is possible to apply or not.. i actually don't think that it is worth implementing in BK at all... Won't add much.

On the other hand, Bk probably needs the 'vehicles reverse button' from CoH2, this is the most needed feature i guess...

[MarKr]

Games with such feature are usualy singleplayer games because the feature pauses the game and you cannot keep pausing the game in multiplayer .
But I think that movement speed "0" is technically the same as "hold_action"...I think I was once trying to solve some bug with Hold Position and tried to change the hold_action for setting movement speed to "0" and it also took away "attack ground", point capturing etc. I am not sure but I think it was like that.
But think of the problems it could cause - accidentaly "freezing" your units in the middle of a fight, also implementing some system to be able to "freeze" just some units (probably some switch as with the "submenu") because freezing all units at once would cause some trouble too I guess. But then, not every unit has free space for such a switch in UI...The more I think about it the more I think it would require some SCAR scripts and lot of work.

[kwok]

You don't think it'd add value? Maybe not for those really good at micro or only use 1-2 units at a time. But for players that really can't rely on micro or want to use many units a at a time, I think this would be a great ability. It would really up the level of combined arms plays as you can coordinate many units at once. I think laying out a battle plan and setting timing is a huge aspect for military, giving this capability will turn and put emphasis on alternate skills than micro. So often I see new players just get destroyed on simple micro even though I know their brains are moving at a faster pace. They try to "do some cool tactic" but get stomped cuz they fumble the micro and the opponent will stomp on the mistake. This will really open up and fix some other possible balance problems as well. As many units were designed to only be taken out be extreme combined force. It would free thought away from one-click kill necessities that so many find the only and easiest method of getting jobs done, which will allow devs to start making it more costly because players will have more options. I mean how many times do players wish they had the micromanagement of an Computer hard/expert and be able to move so many units at once to different players?

Maybe this won't sit well with experienced players who rely on micro skill to just flat out stomp the noobs, cuz this helps even the playing field. BUT, it also enables experienced and micro skilled players to do even MORE tricks, opening creativity to more than just single units.

It will take a learning curve at first, but I think in the long run it will really add a new complexity to the strategies and meta of this game

[Krieger Blitzer]

Games with such feature are usualy singleplayer games because the feature pauses the game and you cannot keep pausing the game in multiplayer .

Combat Mission is an online game.. and yes, they pause it!
This game has 2 different game modes to play... Real time strategy (just like CoH) and authentic turn-based mode; this feature obviously doesn't work with the first mode except in single-player, but the whole 2nd mode is primary based on it... Both players will give multiple orders for their units and then each of them would hit the "start" button when finished. And then only watch what happens for a 1 minute period of combat.. if one player finishes first giving his commands to all his units, the other player will have to wait him until he is done! But I think there is a time limit for each player to set his own plan, it's actually an interesting experience, and such an extremely realistic RTS game

Anyway, if someone ever succeeded implementing the vehicles reverse button in BK btw.. i think he deserves at least 100 Dollars as a reward

[kwok]

So I thought about some of the problems you listed out for coh2, not sure how well they parallel to coh1.
accidental freezing is as accidental for any ability and somethjng I think is an expected risk for any ability. One way to reduce it is just don't assign a hot key, chances of accidentally hitting it will be lower.
Losing some capability while in the toggle I think is expected similarly how you cant move on hold ground simply because there is a series of orders that could precede an expected order. Not being able to capture or attack ground I think is fine because the intention is if you want to do those things, you wouldn't be using the simul execute ability. Those are one step plan moves.
As for being interrupted during plan setting, personally I wrote that off as a strategic fault, or in fencing terms "attack into preparation" where a player has been preemptively attacked and would be naturally punished just as in "reality".

For my hold ground ability in coh2 I used enable facing only btw. Is that something in coh1?

Also, can we just break the reverse drive into another topic. Everyone already knows and wants this, we don't need to insert it every post as if it were some obvious attempt to drive off topic.