Stuarts / Pz4 D

[Krieger Blitzer]

Both the US M5 Stuart and the M3 CW Stuart HE rounds were buffed last patch... But it's still useless! How about to give the Stuart an extra range with HE? Same as 76mm Tetrarch.

The Pz4 D from Blitz doc is also quite useless.. maybe some more range could make it more useful as well...

[Frost]

well i always liked blitz doc Pz4 because it kills inf so fast

for a tank ofc also its powerfull enough to survive 57 mm long enough its very good tank

also dont fogite its med not heavy

[Krieger Blitzer]

It's the weakest version of all Pz4s out there, weakest armor of them all... Actually dies with mortar

[Warhawks97]

Thing about stuart is that its shot deals pretty low damage.... half that of an HE sherman i think (40 for stuart, 80 for sherman mulitplied with 1.5 against most inf makes 60 for stuart) which also means that even a direct hit of its gun cant kill a solider that has 70-80 HP (which pretty much all mid to late game inf has). The AoE is as large as for the sherman, just the damage reduction is vastly higher. So the combo of much lower basic damage pared with much higher damage loss in the AoE circle results in almost zero damage. I thought about reducing its AoE (coz its simply less HE in the round) by a bit but therefore the damage reduction within the AoE circle is lower. And the basic damage maybe up to 50.


The Pz4D is in my opinion the most usefull one of all stubby tank IV. Its not suited for the late game but you can sometimes rush straight for the mass production of tank IV´s and getting the IVD as the first tank in the game. Its HE is also the most powerfull one of all 75 mm HE rounds. Its capability to whipe out entire squads of main allied inf as decently better as those of an HE sherman for several reasons (1. Way higher HE damage 2. allied main inf has less HP and run in closer formations 3. Tank IV has better accuracy if i am correct but have to check it). That means that the D has some use if you rush for it, but the stuart has never any point. That both are not really suited for late games is obvious.

Edit: how do you come to mortars? So far mortars and arty working differently at all. Many tanks or most are "penetrared" by arty and taking damage except some axis one. The damage modifiers for mortars vs tanks are usually the same. So this is either just meant in a funny way or it is simply a unsuited argument. So far all tanks take damage from mortars.

[Krieger Blitzer]

The Pz4D is in my opinion the most usefull one of all stubby tank IV.

Kidding right? The Pz4 D gets penetrated by 37mm AT guns VERY easily... Never can bounce off even for just a single time.

Stuart on the other hand can't be penetrated by Axis 37mm AT guns at all, except from the rear!

Edit: how do you come to mortars? So far mortars and arty working differently at all. Many tanks or most are "penetrared" by arty and taking damage except some axis one. The damage modifiers for mortars vs tanks are usually the same. So this is either just meant in a funny way or it is simply a unsuited argument. So far all tanks take damage from mortars.

No, when a mortar hits this tank.. it will deal such an extremely high damage... Actually just 4 mortar hits are enough to kill the Pz.4.D which is the same damage to half-trucks somehow; it's not even a tank.

[Panzerblitz1]

Both vehicles got almost the same thickness in armor but, the Stuart got sloppy armor compare to the Panzer IV Ausf. D flat armor, so in RL there is more chances that 37mm anti tanks guns will bounced on the Stuarts at medium/long range when they will hit hard almost every time the flat steel angle of the Panzer IV D.

Regarding the mortars, you just need to move your units to not get shelled, easy.

The Panzer IV D is a pure infantry support unit, who can deal with light vehicles, but thats all, even better for exemple, the stuart got a more anti tank role with his excellent 40mm than the panzer IV D, i remember discussing a lot on the introduction of the Panzer IV D with Xalibur, and it was crystal clear for us that this introduction was to give a good early anti infantry/light vehicle medium tank for the doc. not a Tank eater

And i do agree that the Panzer IV D is a great unit in Bk and actually very important early in game, sure it will takes high damage from AT's, but this unit is FAR from being useless, but after all, its the way people play the game right?

[Krieger Blitzer]

Well, when i mentioned about the 37mm AT guns from both sides while also comparing their efficiency against each of the Pz.IV.D and the Stuart... I didn't say that there is anything wrong with it! ^^ As I am totally aware that the Stuart actually has better armor in that case.

But i was only pointing out the fact.. that the IV.D can never be the best version of all the Stubby Panzers anyhow! As I was replying Hawks there. I was responding to this particular statement;

The Pz4D is in my opinion the most usefull one of all stubby tank IV.

I mean, there is absolutely noway that the IV.D could be any better than the IV.F1 or even the Ausf E somehow... Since that the IV.D is obviously the worst version of all the stubby Panzers.. compared to the other versions of which are much better armored, such as the Ausf E and the F1 which also has a top turret MG gunner!
So, i was just reminding Hawks that the IV.D does actually have the worst armor of them all... Therefore, it simply just can't be "the most useful version of them all" somehow.

The problem with the IV.D in my own perspective.. is the fact that it's easily rushed frontally and killed with only 2 Zookas. Since it does have absolutely no means of suppression... Not to mention that it is easily penetrable by even the smallest AT guns as u already know! I mean; just compare it to the 76mm Tetrarch for example! It's much faster, has better range... And almost as much effective HE rounds as the IV.D as well.

That's why i probably suggest to increase HE rounds range for both the Stuarts and the IV.D hopefully...

[Warhawks97]

It is bc its very cheap with mass prod and comes very early. And it fits simply in the gameplay.

[Panzerblitz1]

I remind you he didn't said "Best version of all stubbies" but most useful of stubbies, which is quite different, and yes i agree on this one, the Panzer IV D is really useful in the role we gave him, and fit perfectly in the early game.

The most powerful stubby will be the F1 btw

[JimQwilleran]

F1 is a true beast.

[Krieger Blitzer]

Well, ya... I would have to agree about the F1 for sure. No doubt it's the best version of all Stubby IVs! But still; neither any of them even comes close to the M4 Sherman.. just 30 fuel/300 MP and u get a true inf sweeper with deadly HE shells + instant suppression.
Not to mention that it gains more HP after the sandbag upgrades, also with over-repair using the specialized Engineers from Armor doctrine!

[Panzerblitz1]

Yes true, but we agree you can't compare a stubby 75mm gun with a long barrel 75mm sherman M4 gun, but thats another story

[JimQwilleran]

Imo Panzer IV F1 is better than Sherman. It's top mg is as good as Panther G's one.