Historical Add-on For Blitzkrieg mod

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justforfun1
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Re: Historical Add-on For Blitzkrieg mod

Postby justforfun1 » 08 Nov 2017, 19:25

I will not update Historical add-on anymore on the Bk forum, or post related Historical contents here, i will delete my account as well, too much problems with this Jalis dude who know everything better, freely insulting my work and competence, and chasing me for too much time now on this forum, i have enough of this bad energy and this idiot.
You know where to find the mod anyway, see you.

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Tiger1996
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Re: Historical Add-on For Blitzkrieg mod

Postby Tiger1996 » 08 Nov 2017, 20:42

Come on...

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MarKr
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Re: Historical Add-on For Blitzkrieg mod

Postby MarKr » 08 Nov 2017, 20:56

Jalis wrote:You know Markr, my point is often reasonable/predictable. I say something true and an other people say it is false. I give evidence it is true, but the other guy never acknowledge he was wrong, so I claim again I was true.
So...your "reasonable" point is to hear "yes, jalis, you are right"...that is truly reasonable and not childish at all.

Jalis wrote:It was claim at start I was wrong and AI worked perfectly. Afaik it was never acknowledged afrika had serious trouble with AI.
fact is it have serious problem.
Even if you want to hear that you are right, isn't this a matter of point of view and priorities? You say AI in Africa addon has "serious problem" - look at what the phrase means. "Serious" means "weighty or important", "problem (noun)" is "a question proposed for solution or discussion". It has been said by jff that AI is not main concern because the addon is not meant for PvP. Therefore even if the AI had a problem, it is not a serious one because AI is not important for the addon. And it is actually not a problem either - it was a question proposed for discussion and the resolution of the discussion was that it stays as it is because it is not needed to focus on the AI because the addon aims for PvP.
So all in all AI in Afrika does not have a "serious problem". Since the addon is not made for PvE, any AI is a bonus, not a core function. So if you want to hear "yes, jalis, you're right" I think all you could get from jff is "yes, jalis, AI does not work as you want it to work (and I don't care)".

Jalis wrote:Point also it is not author dont want to put ressource in AI, but he cant because he have knowledge only in the graphic part of the game.
Money is not the only resource you can invest. Time is a resource you can invest into things too. Even if jff doesn't have the knowledge to improve AI, he could do it by investing time to finding someone who would do it for Afrika addon and then invest more time to test the AI. But as said above, AI is not the focus of the addon so there is no logical reason why he would invest his resources (time) into AI development.

Jalis wrote:--- Author of models ... please you know like me it is false. Panzerblitz also. The Fi 156 was in blitzkrieg 4.0 and had been removed in the following patch because it had been know this model was really pirated, and we all know the pz II story, so stop with that.
I know nothing of that, I did not play BK in that time. I don't even know what Fi 156 is...and don't care really. I don't know what the situation back then was. jff says models are used legitimately. You say they are not. It is a word against a word. I have no reason to trust your word over his and since there is the working pricnciple of the presumption of innocence, I believe him unless proven otherwise.

Jalis wrote:Competent ; it is simple, I m enough competent to make a mod from A to Z. So I m enough competent to estimate the work done. In this particular case I point more lack of work than work done. Portraits is a good exemple, it is the kind of work I did, except for me, I made original portrait, I didn't copy pasted it from an other game. It is a matter of days no more to create an original gallery of portrait for all coh/bk units. I gave an example last year iirc.
Yes, you have the knowledge to make a mod from scratch. Do you have the knowledge, or maybe "ability", to be able to say how much work who did in certain process in which you took no part? Unless you are some sort of omnipotent entity, you cannot know that. So how do you know what the jff did and what did the others? Even if jff had help from other people (of whom all are credited in Afrika), he was the one leading the project. Since you know what it takes to make a mod "from A to Z" you know that it takes more than just setting up stats, putting model files into the game, making textures and portraits. It is also needed to come up with an interesting concept for the doctrines, for the units used and units available for the doctrines, the command trees (what they provide and how they are unlocked), also comming up with some unique features/mechanics (as I understand in Africa are the "one-time" commanders which is something that BK does not have etc.), and also updating the mod, communicating with community (in general the PR work), solving problems you encounter in the mod-making process...all of that is part of the mod making process, or SHOULD be if you want to have a mod that is popular among the people. And JFF did that, made it happen and turned his concept into a working model.
You say that you have the knowledge of coming up with a mod from scratch but you have not done so...or at least your projects never received even a fraction of popularity of justforfun's work. So you can say "I could do it" while jff can say "I have done it".

I would say jff deserves more credit than you're giving him.
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Jalis
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Re: Historical Add-on For Blitzkrieg mod

Postby Jalis » 08 Nov 2017, 23:57

So...your "reasonable" point is to hear "yes, jalis, you are right"...that is truly reasonable and not childish at all.


Bah, after I had read AI work wonderfully, it is you idiot who dont know how to install a mod, yes I feel resaonable to heard I m perhaps able to install a mod correctly, and perhaps Afrika AI is not so flawless that it was claim at start.

Most discussion at bk forum is to know who is wrong and who is right. Up sherman, nerf panther ; you will have discussion where everybody will to be right and make things go in the way he wants.

It was even more easy for me, since I was right and by the way it was a battle I could not loose, so I had no reason to let it done.
... childish, if you re interrested in childish reaction, you ve pee poo picture above.

For 3d model you can let it done, if you want to know, you will know. Anyway as long as the mod will stay in the shadow, in the desert moddb became, it will cause trouble to no one.

You say that you have the knowledge of coming up with a mod from scratch but you have not done so.


I didnt share, if you want to be accurate. Fact is I have no compulsive obsession for need of admiration. It is one of the reason I even shared very few screenshot. It is not the only resaon, and nobody care, even not me.

If it was a kind of trap or pike it missed.

nota ; managing mod from A to Z, exclude 3D modelling. I have no competence for that.

Last ; I didnt give to JFF credits he deserved. You re right, and what ? it is a long time fair discussions are rare here. At least last time I tried it end in a backstab called ; c est de bonne guerre.

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MarKr
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Re: Historical Add-on For Blitzkrieg mod

Postby MarKr » 09 Nov 2017, 01:01

Jalis wrote:Bah, after I had read AI work wonderfully, it is you idiot who dont know how to install a mod, yes I feel resaonable to heard I m perhaps able to install a mod correctly, and perhaps Afrika AI is not so flawless that it was claim at start.
Those answers you got were to harsh, true. But maybe it was because of how you descibed the functionality of AI in Afrika. I am not sure but iirc, Afrika uses same AI files as BK. People know that BK AI is not perfect (same reason - it is not our interest to improve AI) and if you then came, saying that the AI in Afrika has "serious problems" then it is misleading to people. "AI works same in BK as in Afrika but in Afrika it has "serious problem" which it does not have in BK?" - that is the first thought it brings for me. If it is meant "AI in Afrika is just as flawed as in BK" then my first thought would be "of course it is, it uses the same files...it is obvious, so why does he mention it?". So if this is how jff perceived your criticism of AI then no wonder that the answer was "it works flawlessly" - obviously it is exageration, but if you consider it uses same AI files, then it does work "flawlesly" (flawless copy, works same, no deviations from the template). So maybe all this arguing about AI is result of exagerations of both sides?

Jalis wrote:Most discussion at bk forum is to know who is wrong and who is right. Up sherman, nerf panther ; you will have discussion where everybody will to be right and make things go in the way he wants.
These talks about buffing and nerfing units take place to change something in the game - to "improve" the quality of gameplay for everyone; this is subjective, because what is "better" for one might be "worse" for other, the general intention is to bring change to the official version and get a change in gameplay no matter who you face. This does not apply to your "discussion" in the matter of Afrika addon because clearly your main point was to hear (read) "you are right" even though you knew it won't be changed because what you asked for was not something the addon aims at or cares about. Not to mention that for most of the people making changes to the mod is beyond their knowledge while you could have made your desired changes for yourself and still take full usage of the rest of the stuff Afrika offers.

Jalis wrote:I didnt share, if you want to be accurate. Fact is I have no compulsive obsession for need of admiration. It is one of the reason I even shared very few screenshot. It is not the only resaon, and nobody care, even not me.
I know you had your own project but did not share it or only with a few people. This puts you in extremely good position compared to jff - you can critize his work while you never showed yours and thus game no room to anyone for criticism. Who knows? Maybe it was flawed on many levels, maybe it was not ballanced properly, maybe there were not functioning models and complete joke compared to jff's work and maybe it was way better than Afrika, maybe it was a real masterpiece...we'll never know, because we have no way to find out. The fact remains - you put tons of critics on someone's work while you never presented yours.
I doubt jff made the addon to become "famous" or "glorified" by players or whatever. I think he enjoys working on his project and he shared it with others so that they can try it out. If they like it, they can enjoy it, if they don't like it, they can uninstall it. One way or another publishing such project requires courage because when you release it for the first time you don't know if people will like it or hate it. You never had to face it because you never went with your project public, yet you spent a lot of time on it too. Neither you nor jff got any payment for the time spent on your projects so I pressume both of you worked on it because you enjoy it. In such case I think jff deserves respect for sharing his work with others and giving people the opportunity to try out and enjoy something new.
I know you don't want admiration and you don't care about any of it, but I would really like to know what you would do in jff's shoes - if you released your project and someone was for years bitching about something that was not even main focus of your project and other details that don't really matter at all for the gamplay.

Jalis wrote:I didnt give to JFF credits he deserved. You re right, and what ?
Maybe it is not about giving credits but rather just leaving him alone. You've expressed already that you don't like several aspects of Afrika, everyone knows it by now. No need to spit more crap on his work every time an update gets released.

Jalis wrote:c est de bonne guerre
I don't speak French....something about a boner?
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